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Running very hot after after head and super-six swap, ideas?
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Author:  Aloxite [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Running very hot after after head and super-six swap, ideas?
I just swaped a ported '79 head (not milled) and super-six intake onto the 225 in my '63 Dart GT. Since then its been running very hot, pegging out the stock gauge and boiling off. I swapped in a 160 thermostat for the 195, also tested both and they worked fine. I swapped in the radiator from my '69 Valiant 225 and still ran hot. I tried retarding the timing, still hot. The carb is a rebuilt BBD for a '70 318 and seems to be running rich, so i don't think mixture could cause it. The exhaust flapper in the manifold seems to work fine, at least it moves fine by hand and springs closed. I tried vice-gripping it in the no-heat to intake position and it still ran hot, so I think that's out. The EGR thing on the exhaust manifold is in place and doesn't have a vacuum line to it, which I think means it is closed. The EGR port in the head is blocked off.
The bottom end seems like it could be starting to get tired, I can see oil drops on the back of the trunk-lid after trips. Could bad rings cause cause an engine to run hot? I am starting to wonder if maybe I could have put the head gasket on wrong or used the wrong gasket or something, and blocked a coolant passage. Any thoughts? Thanks, Mark

'63 Dodge Dart GT, 2dr HT
Primer Black, old school pinstripes, '59 Caddy taillights
Red bucket-seats, Gold '66 Imperial Floormats
'65 225, '79 head, stock cam and manifolds, super-six intake
'70 BBD, 2.25" exhaust with turbo muffler and '67 Dart tip.
Rebuilt Pushbutton 904, new driveshaft with slipyoke
8 3/4 2.94 gear, 10" drums all arond, dual res mc
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmmmm, very perplexing... Did you try pressure testing the cooling system? Did you go "hog wild" with the porting, or just clean it up a bit?

D/W
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
The head gasket can't go on wrong. The pins in the block aren't in symmetrical places so you can't flip the gasket upside down or turn it around.

Check your radiator hoses and make sure they aren't collapsing, especially under moderate rpm. Keep an eye on them and rev the engine up to see what happens.

If you suspect the bottom end I would do a compression check and possibly oil pressure as well.

You may want to remove the water pump to check out the impellers and clean the passages behind it. Also the block drain plug near the oil filter, it is square. If you remove this plug and no water comes out, well, theres your issue ;)

Along DW's note, check the oil and see if it looks milky or its level is unusually high. You may of hit a water passage if you ported too much.
Author:  64 Convert [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Let's hope the porting process didn't go too deep and put a hole in the water jacket.
Author:  Craig [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
What temperature sending unit are you using? The one that was in the old head , or one that happened to be in the new head?
Try a different sender in the head. I find they have different calibrations.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  What color are your plugs?
Just out of curiousity if you pull a spark plug after it getting hot, what color is on the electrode? I just want to make sure you're not running too lean a mixture and causing the overheat either.


-D.Idiot
Author:  Reed [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Was anything done to the head besides proting it? The reason I ask is if the head has not been cleaned or hot tanked then it might be clogged up and restricting coolant flow enough to overheat your motor (had that happen to me before).
Author:  mnecaise [ Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm surprised no one has suggested vacuum leak. If you're running lean because of a vacuum leak, you'll run hot... You did say you swapped in a super six with that new head.
Author:  golembieski [ Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:54 am ]
Post subject: 
How about the intenals of the water pump fire it up with the cap off and see if water is flowing when it is hot. Or a air build up in the head i like to drill a 1/8 hole in the stat when i put them in so i can bleed all the air out of the system.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:48 am ]
Post subject: 
What head gasket are you using? The stock OEM stamped steel gasket or the composition type? You did not mill the head, but did you check it for flatness? It is possible the head is slightly warped and leaking combustion gas into the cooling system. This can happen, without water getting into the engine. This is more likely to happen with the steel gasket. The steel gasket should be retorqued, after running. If you have an Autozone near you, use their tool loaner program, and get a block checker. It fits in the radiator filler, fill it with a dlue chemical, run the engine. If the fluid turns green, there is a combustion leak.
Author:  Aloxite [ Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will dig in and report back. I am going to get it hot, roll in to a rest stop, and check the sparkplugs color to get the mixture question answered. Head gasket was a comp. type that I got from NAPA, I think it was a felpro but I'm not really sure.
I pulled the head and intake off of a '79 Aspen. The head was mildly ported (bowls and ports) by John Lennon in Portland, Or (no not the Beatle, he's dead). John does lots of mopar headwork, carbs and rebuilds torqueflights and I have been very happy with his work. But the head was not hot tanked (soaked in castrol superclean) so the blocked passage in the head is a good possibity. Likewise the warpage issue is a good possibily. If nothing else, now I have a compelling reason to mill the head.

Since I'm still getting oil spots on the trunklid after the head swap, I know (er I think I know) the oils coming past the oil control rings and not the valve stem seals. Which pretty much means that engine will need to come out for a re-ring, new bearings, timing chain and maybe a 252s cam. When I had the head off I couldn't feel any ridge at the top of the .040 bores so I think it won't need to be bored.

Since it really does need to come out (and that always takes 10 times as long as I think it will), I am leaning toward pulling the 225 out of my '69 Valiant Four-door, swapping oil pans, adding on of Ed's torque converter nose adapting rings, and dropping it in the '63 Dart. That engine has a John Lennon ported '74 head (which has the plug tubes for period correct oil leaks) and runs sweet. The '69 is a 3 on tree manual with a 3.23 gear so it should be faster than the '63 with an auto and 2.94, but the difference is huge. The '69 will hold its own with just about anything in first or second gear and it just charged up 9000 ft mountains in Colorado. The '63 is just a slug, even with the super-six, at sea level, with a tailwind, down a mineshaft.

Anywho, I will check the simple stuff: mixture, water pump, block plugage, compression, etc and report back. Thanks for all of the helpful posts, Mark
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...(and that always takes 10 times as long as I think it will)
I know THAT'S right! :|

Rule of thumb for me: Take any project and determine the worst-case scenario, then square that to arrive at the time required.

D/W
Author:  Aloxite [ Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Yup, a vacuum leak where the manifold bolts to the head was causing a lean condition that caused all of the heat issues. Compression test showed a tired bottom end (fresh head) so the engine need to come out anyway. I will try to follow the manifold installation article a little better this time.

Big thanks to all who posted suggestions. Mark
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