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/6 Center of Gravity needed for 1917 Dodge Brothers Rat Rod
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Author:  Aloxite [ Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  /6 Center of Gravity needed for 1917 Dodge Brothers Rat Rod
Anyone have an idea where the center of gravity is side to side on a 225 slant six? I might just use the crankshaft center line to center it but I'm curious.

I've got a 1917 Dodge Brothers Touring Car, well no top, no rear section, and nothing in front of the firewall (If there were a firewall). Just a bucket thats in pretty good condition. I'm going to build a track-T style rat rod. The plan is to narrow the body 3" to 5" (more subtle the writing "no fat chicks" on the door), drop it on some narrowed vintage rails with transverse leaf springs and split wishbones (buggy style). I'm looking for the right early tractor radiator and shell. For the drive train I'm using all the stuff thats laying around. A '65 225, 10" clutch, cast iron A-833 OD, '66 b-body 8 3/4. I'm looking at modifying a mopar manual steering box to use inside the cab with a shaft going sideways out of the cowl.(If that pans out I will be looking for extra manual box's) I'm going to use all 60's mopar electricals because I have a couple of parts cars. This is a true low-buck hot rod.
I have an aluminum 1-bbl intake (80's?) that I will likely use for the time being. Maybe some day I will get a hyperpak intake but not for a while. I would also be interested in a multiple carb intake if someone has one thats reasonable or wants to trade(anyone need an a-body 8 3/4?)
Author:  Old6rodder [ Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Howdy,

Good to hear another bucket going up, there're a couple around (one with a puffer).
I'll need to go make some measurements, I have a mill sitting loose on a roller skid that I can fiddle with. I'll try to answer your question sometime next week if I can get a bit of time and if it's still unanswered.
What I did was balance the frame on the centerline so that it could only rock about 1/2" either way and jury-rig the motor into rough position (safety chained from a hoist, of course), then propped a plank up for me to sit on and fussed the motor around 'till I was happy with it. Pretty Rube Goldberg and a bit risky but eventually got the balance I was looking for. Took some relevant measurements and stashed'em for the build. The result was the crank centerline actually sits at an angle accross the frame centerline (same concept as this Lotus http://lotuseleven.org/open_exhaust.htm but not as radically).

Hope you can update us on your project from time to time, perhaps with a picture now and then as well.
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:38 am ]
Post subject: 
I think this car builder set his "bucket" on a VW floorpan, it looked like a easy way to make a fun ride.
http://www.dutra.org/photos/t-buckit.jpg

As for the engine's weight center, it is pretty close to the crank's centerline. Remenber to do the check with the manifolds hanging off to the driver's side, those "counter-balance" the 30 degree slope a little.
Keep us posted on your progress.
DD
Author:  Aloxite [ Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info guys. I'm probably shouldn't worry much about it. Although the frame will be narrow, the track will still be fairly wide.
I never noticed the slant to the slant on the lotus valiant before. Holy asymmetry Batman.

I just copied all of the pics of Cassandra on to my hard drive. Wow, cool car old6rodder. It gives me a really good idea of the proportions of the car I'm building in my head. Cassandra has the same design I was thinking about: suicide front (semi-elliptical is still on the table), in-car steering and of course slant 6. I dig the front of the car, with the grill well aft of the axle centerline. The slant 6 drivers side motor mount headlight/shock brackets are a great idea. The thing that strikes me is the length. Looking at the pics it looks like the engine is close to the firewall, and also close to the radiator so not too much can be done to make mine much shorter. It just makes me reconsider narrowing the body. I need to measure some butts around here anyways before I start cutting. :lol: I'm going to get my date in my friends '19 Dodge touring with me and see how close is too close.

I know I get some web space with my comcast account so I will get a site set up with some pics of this project and my other heaps: 63 Dart GT, 67 Signet 2-dr, and 66 Chysler 300 2-dr. Thanks for the input guys, Mark
Author:  Old6rodder [ Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, but now your hard drive may never forgive you, :lol:

Well, I found a little time to play today so I lifted a couple motors, and got a couple small surprises. I did the lifts with a gearbox attached as that's the way it rests and runs. I used a 904 as I had one handy but I doubt the weight difference of another trans will change the results much. I bubbled at the manifold faces (for lateral) and the rocker boxes (for longitudinal) for consistent reference.
First surprise, there was no difference as to manifolding, they seem to be right on the centerline balance wise. Iron, aluminum, etc., no perturbation. So much for one assumption.
Second surprise, there was a difference with new versus old heads, an additional 1/8" from cl with the tube head. I hadn't expected that either. It's certain that my jury rig had some slop in it but it should've been consistent in effect.
The net was cg at 2 1/4" right of crank cl for the peanut and 2 3/8" for the tube.
You'll need to apply that to total weight of your unit to get something meaningful but it looks like in static it'll only partially balance out a driver only application pretty much as is. In motion it may counter a small fraction of the torque lift at the rear but I doubt you could measure it directly on a suspended car.
p.s. The "lift" points (the tapped bosses at #3 and#5 cyls.), used with a sling chain, rolled the motor to the left by about 7* and produced around 40* of nose up when slung midway between. About right for pulling the unit from a normal car.
It was a fun way to use up a couple loose hours today.

Don't sweat the wheelbase, Cassi's on the long side. I would've made'er 18" shorter if I'd stuck with the original "track" design, but decided to go to a more "lakes" length fairly early in the build.
Putting the radiator inside the shell (I have a fan in there) and putting the rear end in front of the rear spring (the normal Ford position) instead of under it would add up to a very visible difference. Plus, if you're sitting atop a traditional Z'd ladder frame rather than between '32 rails you'll have more options accross the board.
Still, a six is indeed longer than a four (or two slanted fours, alias v8 ), that's one of the things I like about'em.

Hope that helps a bit,
Author:  buickroadster [ Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
if you are lokking for a multycarb intake go to www.lynxcorp.com (they are an australian speed maker) and are having a parts sale.they have slant six tripple carb(side draught SU and weber)intakes listed for around $250 oz $$(about $150 us) you might be interested :?:
Author:  Old6rodder [ Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Howdy,

Just in case you hadn't seen it and need one, here's a windshield frame on e-bay that purports to be a '17 to '19 Dodge.........http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AMEWA%3AIT

Dick
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