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 Post subject: falls flat without choke
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:15 pm 
i have a 1970 duster with a slant six and two barrel carb (carter 2259???) well the problem i have is that if i punch the car from a dead stop when in gear the car bogs unless i have the choke pulled(part way manual choke) i have managed to get the car to run much better than it was by adjusting the screws on the front im not sure what those do exactly the bog only gets worse when its cold i slid some carboard in front of the radiator so itll warm up a little quicker(i have problems with the car running cold as it is) once the car warms up the bog isnt quite so bad but i still need the choke pulled or itll fall flat on its face from a light or stop sign or anything do i need to re-jet to larger jets or is something else going on here that i am unsure of would a carb rebuild be justified?? does anyone know where i could find jets for this carb or a rebuild kit would like to keep price as low as possible thank you for your help


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:16 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:54 pm
Posts: 10
Location: st louis
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this is my post i dont know why it says guest??

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:59 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:02 am
Posts: 1817
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
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I would first check fo a Vacuum leak. If you pull the choke at WOT then you are getting to much air from somewhere.
secondly I would check the inital timing. I was having your same problems and resolved them by advancing the timing and replacing the carb to manifold gasket.
hope this helps!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:20 am
Posts: 2011
Location: Argentina
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also check your accel pump

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Juan Ignacio Caino

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:38 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:54 pm
Posts: 10
Location: st louis
Car Model:
i have found the two vacuum leaks the problem isnt as bad but still very noticable i took it down to a parking lot last nite and trying figuring out what the problem was by starting from a dead stop then adjusting the carb (without choke pulled) got it to be better but as soon as i pull the choke and hit it from the stop it is such better throttle response but i know that driving around with the choke pulled is really a limiting factor on how much power i can makeso i would really like to resolve the issue

does anyone know of a good resource on tuning these carbs

where could i find jets

how would i go about "checking the accel pump"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:20 am
Posts: 2011
Location: Argentina
Car Model:
when you hit the throttle, there's a limited fraction of time until the gas starts to flow from the main jets. The acceleration pump is a reservoir of fuel that injects some gas for covering up this time fraction. If your pump ain't pumping that extra amount of gas, the car will be kinda stalling until it gets gas from the mains. This failure increases as throttle opening increases, meaning that if you're gentle on the pedal, it may be less noticeable than if you step on it. I don't know what kinda carter you have there, but on the ones I have layed hands on is somewhat a piston with a rubber grommet (or leather) that acts when you open the throttle. That would be inside of the fuel bowl. If you look at the venturi and your accel pump is working, you should see some gas shot from the side. If you see nothing, then your accel pump is shot.

I'd try to swap that carb for a holley 2 bl, say 350 CFM, manual choke assy. You'll have to work on the linkage but is a very reliable carb, the accel pump is mounted on the outside of the fuel bowl so you can replace the diaphragm without tearing apart the whole thing, that's a cool feature 'cuz most of the time you'll be likely to find that you need to replace or fix the accel pump 3 or 4 times before the carb really needs a complete tune up.

Wish you luck! Juan.

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Juan Ignacio Caino

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:29 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:02 am
Posts: 1817
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Car Model:
the accelerator pump can be adjusted by just removing the plate on top. With the aircleaner off of the carb grab the throttle cable and pull it sharply while looking down into the carb. you should see two(2) thin jets of fuel getting shot forcibly down into the intake. If you dont see 2 good streams you either need an adjustment or a rebuild.
What is your base timing?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:29 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:54 pm
Posts: 10
Location: st louis
Car Model:
i see both streams so that means its not my accelrator pump correct? i put the timing lite on it and sumthings funky the thing is advanced way beyond the little measurement device at idle i reatarded it as far as i could and it is still almost an inch away from the last number on the degree thing(does that thing have a name?) why would this be? could this be the problem also when i took the hose off of the carb and sucked on it the car did not advance so is the pod bad??? this car is really starting to get to me :!:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:20 am
Posts: 2011
Location: Argentina
Car Model:
if your timing mark on the balancer is far away to the left (passg side) (from the timing tab) your car is way too advanced and if it's going to the other side is retarded (looking from the front of the car)

I would suspect that your timing chain has jumped...

good luck, I know for sure that's horrible when you start to fantasize about burning down your car :) :roll:

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Juan Ignacio Caino

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:00 pm 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:02 am
Posts: 1817
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Car Model:
2 questions come to mind
1. was the vacuum hose connected when you checked the timing? It should be disconnected from the vac pod and plugged
2.where is you vac hose connected to the carb? is the port at least half way up the body of the carb? if it is at the bottom of the carb you are getting vacuum all the time when you should not.
you probably need to pull your distributer and move it a tooth either direction depending on which way you are off and then reinstall it and retime.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:04 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:54 pm
Posts: 10
Location: st louis
Car Model:
i talked to a family member at thankgiving dinner who is another mopar guy he suggested posibly moving all the plug wires one spot to the left(counter-clockwise) on the dist. to attempt to bring the car back on the timing tab this would be the same as moving the dist. one tooth correct? i believe the vaccum advance is connected to the bottome of the carb but when at idle these ports have no vacuum and the idle timing doesnt change when the hose is hooked up or not could the mechanical advance be screwed up some how (bad springs or somthing) were does the fuel for the accel pump come from could i adjust this so that more fuel is used under hard acceleration im gonna go out and mess with this thing some more ill be back in to check the posts and report any findings<---lol(sounds like some csi thing dont it) thanks again for everyones help

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:06 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:54 pm
Posts: 10
Location: st louis
Car Model:
moving the spark plugs didnt work(car wouldnt start) so we pulled the dist. and adjusted it a tooth which brought it almost on, still no vacuum adavnce i guess the pod is bad checked were it went into the carb and there is no vacuum at idle so thats ok my question is what do i do next?
the car is still about 13 degrees adavanced when it say in my manual it only needs to be 7. sprayed ether around to check for vacuum leak no change in idle so i dont think that is the problem. Does the carb need rebuilt? thanks for any input

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 2:37 pm
Posts: 4194
Location: CA
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Quote:
i believe the vaccum advance is connected to the bottome of the carb but when at idle these ports have no vacuum and the idle timing doesnt change when the hose is hooked up or not
The vaccum advance port the distributor is hooked up to should not have any vaccum at idle, only when the throttle is open. Unplug the hose from it, and put your finger on the carb port. Then with your other hand, activate the throttle linkage. If you feel the vaccum increasing as you open the throttle more, then it is working correctly. A vaccum gauge works better if you have one handy.

If you still get zero vaccum on this port when you open the throttle, then it is either the wrong port or your carb is severly gummed up and needs some cleaning/replacment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:07 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:48 pm
Posts: 5835
Location: Burton BC canada
Car Model:
If the car needs choke to run,,,,and it runs cold...try changing the thermostat so it runs the correct temperature. Trying to tune it to run right with no choke without being warmed up will be tough.
Temp gauges can be deceiving. Warm up the car and feel the upper rad hse...it should be toasty warm. If not, try a 195 thermostat and tune again. If the timing chain has jumped or is too slack the car will idlle and run fine at low RPM but be a dog at mid-range or high RPM5. 13 degrees advanced is not way off for a high mileage car with a slack chain.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:18 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:54 pm
Posts: 10
Location: st louis
Car Model:
i have a 195 thermosat in the car right now the i told you guys wrong the port is above the half way point on the carb no vacuum at idle i bumped the dist. back another tooth and its timed at 8deg btdc is there a way to adjust my accel pump to get more fuel in to the car all together i changed the vaccum pod and still cant tell a difference when i time with the hose connected or not how much vacuum does it need to work properly.

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