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slant6 vs. small block
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12540		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  voiceofstl [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  slant6 vs. small block
I'm a big Mopar and /6 fan.But..... i picked up a sweet 66 val wagon. Its a original a /6 car but the drive train is missing.
I can put a small block (318,360) in it for about the same price as a /6.
I will get alot more performance for the dollar. Can you see a 360 crate motor in it.....I'll be doing 12's for sure..to make a /6 do that would cost alot more money.

So the question is unless I'm going for a totally stock look wouldn't I be wiser to go with a small block?
Author:  vynn3 [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
The only thing is, you mention that you can put a small block in it for about the same price as a /6, THEN you mention a crate motor.

In MY opinion, if somebody ELSE is paying for it, sure, I'd go crate motor.

If I'M shellin' out the dough, though, I'd find a free slant and rebuild it for, what, $500-1000 tops? /6 to V8 conversions tend to be more work than they look like on paper.

Just my $.02!

VM
Author:  voiceofstl [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  /6 small block
I don't want to split hairs but.... sure you can pick up a /6 cheaper then a 318 but 318s are still pretty cheap.
For the few hundred dollars (300?) more you get a A body with a 318 that will run circles around the /6.
I stll love /6's though.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
You'll get a bunch more bang for the buck with a small block. /6's are neato, but that's just the way it izzz.

D/W
Author:  kesteb [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
When you are dropping that 360 crate motor into your car, you will need to ask the following questions:

1) How much will it cost to upgrade the brakes?
2) How much will it cost for the new transmission?
3) How much for the upgraded cooling system?
4) How much for an upgraded rear axle?
5) How much to install sub-frame connectors to handle the extra torque?
6) How much to upgrade the suspension to handle the extra power?
Author:  vynn3 [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
...and all of the little things, like a new throttle cable, new hoses, new engine harness, accesory brackets, fuel lines, etc., etc., etc. I've thought about a /6 to V8 swap myself, so I've tried to come up with a list. It's pretty long, and continues to grow...

VM
Author:  65 dartman [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
New hoses would be mandatory either way. There is no difference in a stock slant vs a V8 engine wiring harness (the extra length on the coil and oil sending unit wire is just run back along the harness and dropped down to those components (that's the way my original 65 V8 Barracuda is done - as well as the V8 Dart GT I just parted out was also done). Basic fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump is the same, unless you're going to upgrade to a 3/8 line. I agree on the throttle cable. Unless you're going to use a hanging pedal from a late model A Body, you would need the V8 or AC pedal assembly plus pedal from the early A Body. I think your 66 may have still had the rotating throttle rod. I would think your donor motor would have the brackets (may not be early A Body correct though). Finally I totally agree with Kestab on all the important upgrades.
I'm getting ready to do the same swap - V8/904 into a 65 Dart wagon. I'll upgrade the brakes to discs (have both SBP and LBP, 8 3/4 rear end (ditto for axles), while the front end is apart, new bushings, ball joints, tie rods, idler and pitman arms and a correct looking radiator (was just recored with 3 rows) with fan shroud and AC fan. Am not "upgrading" the chassis with subframe connectors. Of course the best part is I already have all this stuff, although I've paid for it over time.
Author:  Rob Simmons [ Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
All good points.

Just ask yourself what the intended purpose for the car is. You mention running 12s, so I assume drag racing is part of the deal. Upgraded brakes is good on any older A body. Yeah, the brackets, hoses, cables, exhaust, etc will be a little bit of a chore along with the cost of a larger radiator and transmission. Not all that big of a deal for the increase in performance if that's your main goal.

I swapped my '72 Dart Swinger over from a 225 to a mild 318/904 combo with a cam, headers, etc.

It ran 14s in full street trim the first time out without any tuning and 3.23:1 rear gears.

The '73 Duster race car that I paid some good money on head and machine work for could only get into the 17s with a four barrel, open headers, 3.91:1 gears, high stall converter and weighing about 400 pounds less.

Granted, there is some serious tuning needed on the Duster to get the new combo dialed in, but that's a big difference in performance.

Like Dennis said, /6's are neato, but that's just the way it izzz! :D

You're obviously going to get more "Keep the 6" comments here. Post the same question on any other Mopar Board (other than .com) and you'll get "There's no replacement for displacement, dude!"
Author:  Orange72 [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:54 am ]
Post subject: 
These guys are right on the money here; I have a 69 Dart with a 318 that was dropped in to replace the stock slant. The fact that it fits into the engine bay no problem (with the help of a $150 swap kit) is a moot point compared to the long list of things you're going to have to upgrade/replace to make the car perform (especially if you're going to set it up for racing).

kesteb's list covers everything I was thinking of, except I'd like to add exhaust to that...trying to cram headers in there with a V8 would be a major PITA. (I still have dents on my inner fenderwells :evil: )
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:08 am ]
Post subject: 
?? - So are you saying "go /6", Orange72?

I found that the headers on the 360 in my '71 Twister were far easier to install than the ones on my /6 Duster. Of course they weren't huge primary tubes or anything, just some cheapo small-tube headers on a stout but simple small-block build. I swear that car would snatch the left front tire for very little $$$ investment. :shock:

...a small-block A-body is a very very simple proposition - we're not talking trying to squeeze a big-block in there (though not a bad idea!). The performance will come a lot easier than it will with a /6 and there are a lot more choices and speed parts availability. Of course, some of us like the challenge and the handicap, that's why many of us have built the /6!

D/W
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I have a 12 second Slant street car. I do not have any more money in it than I would a V-8 conversion. All it takes is a little imagination. I can gaurantee that people pay way more attention to a 12 second Slant car at the track than they do a 12 second V-8 car.

Just a side note, all the things kesteb listed for a conversion also need to be done to be safe with a 12 second Slant. Fast is fast whether it's a 6 or 8. :shock:
Author:  Rob Simmons [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:37 am ]
Post subject: 
And a little (big?) shot of nitrous never hurt either, right 'zilla? :wink:

I definitely agree with you on the attention thing. I love being in the stands when one of the fast /6 cars runs and you hear the guy down from you say, "Holy Cow, that things got a 6 in it!?" That's definitely cool!
Author:  slantzilla [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
And a little (big?) shot of nitrous never hurt either, right 'zilla? :wink:
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: I have only sprayed 100 shot so far. That was enough to get me into the 12's and that was what I wanted. :shock:
Quote:
I definitely agree with you on the attention thing. I love being in the stands when one of the fast /6 cars runs and you hear the guy down from you say, "Holy Cow, that things got a 6 in it!?" That's definitely cool!
You can say that again. I was in the stands at Vegas when the / cars were running. People were leaving in bunches until Mike pulled into the water. You should have seen the jaws dropping when the 12:40 times came up. :shock:
Author:  440_Magnum [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
When you are dropping that 360 crate motor into your car, you will need to ask the following questions:

1) How much will it cost to upgrade the brakes?
2) How much will it cost for the new transmission?
3) How much for the upgraded cooling system?
4) How much for an upgraded rear axle?
Yep, yep, yep, and yep. All things that should be added to the price.
Quote:
5) How much to install sub-frame connectors to handle the extra torque?
C'mon, now that's getting a little carried away. As long as its a hardtop, an A-body shouldn't twist with the torque from a 360 crate motor, let alone a 318. All convertibles need subframe connectors (IMO), but there are plenty of 440 and 383 A- and B-bodies running round without subframe connectors.

FWIW, subframe connecting isn't all that expensive, either. Been there, done that on my '69 'vertible B-body.
Author:  gmader [ Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  The 12.40 car at Vegas was not using Nitrous
Hi all,

I was talking to Doc in the pits after that run, and he told me that car didn't have the nitrous hooked up. That makes it all the more impressive.

Good stuff. I got home, and started working on my barracuda immediately.

Greg
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