Slant Six Forum :: Mini starter heads up

Dan,

I know... maybe its just me being lazy or frivoulus.... I must of called over 10 yards asking for a starter from a late model dodge truck, dakota or durango 5.2 or 5.9 and the only place that had one was over 60 miles out.

And I'm not going to get the core because the powermaster ND one I have now has no nose on it. Maybe I'll get a solenoid kit for it and keep as a backup. Last I remember contacting powermaster about it they said that it sounds more like the clutch in it is going out though instead of the solenoid.

I did look at car-part.... ones that showed listings within 30 miles I called and either didn't pick up or weren't there, others were too far.

These things have clutches in them? I thought they were direct drive then gear reduced.

Powermaster does sell "stock" type ND starters with nosecone but I chose this high power racing starter.

Tracy, ca - closest I found was merced and san jose.

Powermaster's highly efficient XS Torque starters feature extra-powerful motors that churn out up to 200 ft.-lbs. of torque. Coupled with their 4.4:1 gear-reduction ratio, that adds up to reliable cranking power for engines, up to a whopping 18.0:1 compression ratio.

What is a "noseless" starter? It does not have the "nose" that fits into the bore in the transmission? How do they get it to locate then?

I got a mini starter from a salvage yard a couple months ago. It appears to have been a rebuilt unit. Tag said Dixie Canada on it. I installed it on my Slant 6 Valinat a couple weeks ago. It cranks fine, however when the engine fires and overruns the starter it makes a weird clackety grinding sound. Is this normal sound for these?

I also notice this starter qets quite hot (way too hot to touch) from the radiant heat from the exhaust manifold. Is this OK or not?

Oh, when the posts above mentioned that these (and other) starters have a "clutch" in them, perhaps it is more correctly named an "overrunning clutch".

Quote:

I got a mini starter from a salvage yard a couple months ago. It appears to have been a rebuilt unit. Tag said Dixie Canada on it. I installed it on my Slant 6 Valiant a couple weeks ago. It cranks fine, however when the engine fires and overruns the starter it makes a weird clackety grinding sound. Is this normal sound for these?

No.

Quote:

I also notice this starter qets quite hot (way too hot to touch) from the radiant heat from the exhaust manifold. Is this OK or not?

That's the cost of living near the exhaust manifold...!

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:40 am ]
Post subject:	Mini starter heads up
I know this subject has been beaten to death but I thought I'd make a note of it so no one wastes their time like I did today... Posts on here say you can use the same starter up to '03, so I asked napa today on the phone for a starter from 2000. Said they had one in stock, what luck of mine. When I made the trip to look at it, not so lucky. What I got looked like it would physically fit and bolt to the tranny but the solenoid connection was a funky right angle connector, not just a stud meant for a ring terminal. By funky, the male pin sticking out wasn't a standard bullet or spade so it wouldn't of been a quick fix. So unless you want to go cutting and splicing harnesses, the offical upper limit needs to be capped at something less then 2000 model year.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:29 am ]
Post subject:
Also, the late-model "noseless" starters are not a wise choice for retrofitting to older cars. Not sure what year these started, but there's really no need to buy one of these starters from a parts store; get one out of a yard. The only thing that ever goes wrong with them is the solenoid contacts, and those are easily replaceable.

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Dan, I know... maybe its just me being lazy or frivoulus.... I must of called over 10 yards asking for a starter from a late model dodge truck, dakota or durango 5.2 or 5.9 and the only place that had one was over 60 miles out. I really didn't feel like making a 120mile round trip drive, spending the time and gas on it. RWD vehicles in these parts must be scarce in the yards. The starter has behaving erratically for months now and I really don't want to get stranded somewhere. (Sometimes, especially when cold, the starter will spin but sounds like the solenoid didn't push the gear out to meet the converter) Anyhow, I got one from one of the more reputable local auto stores here, "Lucas" brand. Box says they only rebuild OE cores so I'm crossing my fingers and hope this one lasts. $140 + $50 core. (1996 full size dodge truck for anyone looking for a specific matching application) And I'm not going to get the core because the powermaster ND one I have now has no nose on it. Maybe I'll get a solenoid kit for it and keep as a backup. Last I remember contacting powermaster about it they said that it sounds more like the clutch in it is going out though instead of the solenoid.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Dan, I know... maybe its just me being lazy or frivoulus.... I must of called over 10 yards asking for a starter from a late model dodge truck, dakota or durango 5.2 or 5.9 and the only place that had one was over 60 miles out. www.car-part.com Quote: $140 + $50 core OUCH! [img]http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthr ... /awman.gif[/quote] Quote: And I'm not going to get the core because the powermaster ND one I have now has no nose on it. Maybe I'll get a solenoid kit for it and keep as a backup. Last I remember contacting powermaster about it they said that it sounds more like the clutch in it is going out though instead of the solenoid. Reason why the clutch died so quickly is because of no nosecone! Powermaster sold you the wrong starter.

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I did look at car-part.... ones that showed listings within 30 miles I called and either didn't pick up or weren't there, others were too far. These things have clutches in them? I thought they were direct drive then gear reduced. Powermaster didn't really sell me the wrong one, I just chose the wrong one. Powermaster does sell "stock" type ND starters with nosecone but I chose this high power racing starter. Long, long, story on that one......

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Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I did look at car-part.... ones that showed listings within 30 miles I called and either didn't pick up or weren't there, others were too far. What's your city? Quote: These things have clutches in them? I thought they were direct drive then gear reduced. All starters have clutches in them, to prevent the starter being destroyed when the engine fires while the starter is still engaged. There are gear-reduction starters (like the original '62-up Chrysler units and these Nippondenso units) and there are direct-drive starters without reduction gears, but no such thing as a "direct drive then gear reduced" starter. Quote: Powermaster does sell "stock" type ND starters with nosecone but I chose this high power racing starter. If Powermaster describes the noseless starter as a "high power racing" item, they are lying. It has exactly the same power as the starter with the nosecone.

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Tracy, ca - closest I found was merced and san jose. This is a description from summit about pwm-9513 part # Powermaster's highly efficient XS Torque starters feature extra-powerful motors that churn out up to 200 ft.-lbs. of torque. Coupled with their 4.4:1 gear-reduction ratio, that adds up to reliable cranking power for engines, up to a whopping 18.0:1 compression ratio. Wether there is any truth to that vs a normal noseless starter, I don't know.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Tracy, ca - closest I found was merced and san jose. H'm, makes me wonder what you might've searched on. Next time, try searching 1990 Dodge D150 starter. Interchange is '88-'94. Quote: Powermaster's highly efficient XS Torque starters feature extra-powerful motors that churn out up to 200 ft.-lbs. of torque. Coupled with their 4.4:1 gear-reduction ratio, that adds up to reliable cranking power for engines, up to a whopping 18.0:1 compression ratio. Blahbitty blah blah churn blah whopping blah reliable blah. Ain' nothin' but a reboxed, marked-up OEM starter.

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:
I searched for 2002, 2000, then 1996. 1990 turned up one hit in Modesto - thought I called that place too. Hmmm... oh well too late now. I spent a few hours on car parts trying different searches and calling different places. But yeh, last time I fall for any powermaster mumbojumbo

Author:	Craig [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	"Noseless" starter and mini starter noise question
What is a "noseless" starter? It does not have the "nose" that fits into the bore in the transmission? How do they get it to locate then? I got a mini starter from a salvage yard a couple months ago. It appears to have been a rebuilt unit. Tag said Dixie Canada on it. I installed it on my Slant 6 Valinat a couple weeks ago. It cranks fine, however when the engine fires and overruns the starter it makes a weird clackety grinding sound. Is this normal sound for these? I did take the starter apart to have a look inside. Everything looks good. All ball and roller bearings throughout. I also notice this starter qets quite hot (way too hot to touch) from the radiant heat from the exhaust manifold. Is this OK or not? I guess I never paid much attention to how hot the regular starter got. Oh, when the posts above mentioned that these (and other) starters have a "clutch" in them, perhaps it is more correctly named an "overrunning clutch".

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:
http://store.summitracing.com/largeimag ... t=PWM-9513 Thats the one I have. It positions itself via the screw holes in the flange. Anything gets too hot to touch thats under the hood and attached to the engine/transmission. After about 10 minutes running I can't touch the intake, valve cover, distributor.... I wouldn't be concerned. If you are worried, there are several heat wraps you can use. For the starter, pick one thats metallic to reflect radiant heat away.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "Noseless" starter and mini starter noise ques
Quote: What is a "noseless" starter? It does not have the "nose" that fits into the bore in the transmission? How do they get it to locate then? The support is machined into the inside of the bellhousing on late-model truck transmissions meant for this starter. That machined support isn't present on the earlier bellhousings, which is why using a noseless starter on an early application = very rapid starter wear and quick starter death (extreme sideloading on intermediate and rear bearings!) Quote: I got a mini starter from a salvage yard a couple months ago. It appears to have been a rebuilt unit. Tag said Dixie Canada on it. I installed it on my Slant 6 Valinat a couple weeks ago. It cranks fine, however when the engine fires and overruns the starter it makes a weird clackety grinding sound. Is this normal sound for these? No. Quote: I also notice this starter qets quite hot (way too hot to touch) from the radiant heat from the exhaust manifold. Is this OK or not? That's the cost of living near the exhaust manifold...! Quote: Oh, when the posts above mentioned that these (and other) starters have a "clutch" in them, perhaps it is more correctly named an "overrunning clutch". Yes, "overrunning clutch" or "sprag clutch" is the technical term for the device in question on these starters, but the generic term that refers to all different types of this device (overrunning, helical Bendix, helical Bendix Folo-Thru) is "starter clutch".

Author:	hitokage [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: $140 + $50 core. I can't remember their name or website, but there's a place that's been mentioned on the MoparStyle forums that sells those starters new for about $100 without excessive shipping costs. Steve G.

Author:	Pierre [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Steve - you have to be careful, I don't think a sub $100 unit will be a genuine ND, but I could be wrong. New $85 ones are all over ebay. Dan - you'll love this - according to my bathroom scale, powermaster 9513 noseless starter is a hair over 8 lbs, while my Lucas rebuilt unit w/nose is about 7.5lb.

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Author:	Craig [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: "Noseless" starter and mini starter noise ques
Quote: Quote: I got a mini starter from a salvage yard a couple months ago. It appears to have been a rebuilt unit. Tag said Dixie Canada on it. I installed it on my Slant 6 Valiant a couple weeks ago. It cranks fine, however when the engine fires and overruns the starter it makes a weird clackety grinding sound. Is this normal sound for these? No. Got any idea what may be causing this sound? When it cranks it sounds just beautiful! This sound only comes when the engine trying to overrun the starter. Quote: Quote: I also notice this starter qets quite hot (way too hot to touch) from the radiant heat from the exhaust manifold. Is this OK or not? That's the cost of living near the exhaust manifold...! Is some kind of a heat shield in order?