There was someone with a serpentine drive, but I can´t remember who
I think it was in a truck?
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| '62 Signet https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14516 |
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| Author: | dakight [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | '62 Signet |
OK. I'm the proud new owner of a '62 Signet, 225 cid. I am exploring my options right now for updating the car as well as restoring the body and interior. I am not especially interested in a "numbers matching" restoration, just a nice finished product with some modern upgrades. I want to add power steering ( or quick ratio manual ) and A/C. Has anyone done any of this and has anyone done or researched a serpentine conversion for this motor? |
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| Author: | Rust collector [ Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:28 pm ] |
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There was someone with a serpentine drive, but I can´t remember who I think it was in a truck?
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:38 am ] |
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Yeah, it was one of the truckers. Think he might be in Canada, even. Neat project, but took a great deal of time, effort and expense. Seems valuable mostly as an intellectual and practical exercise; I can't imagine spending the time and effort for it given the list of other upgrades you want in your '62. Any particular reason you're interested in a serpentine drive? |
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| Author: | dakight [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:26 am ] |
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Serpentines are quieter and there's only one part number to keep for a spare. On the other hand, if it's a major hassle and expense there are probably better places to put my efforts. What about the steering? What years and models are interchangeable? Does a quick ratio manual box exist or do I have to go with a power unit? |
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| Author: | mcnoople [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:09 am ] |
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Yes there are quick manual boxes. firmfeel, flaming river, and some other companies sell them. There also companies that sell faster ratio rebuild parts for the manual boxes there was a thread about it a couple weeks ago I think it's under the heading 20:1 ratio steering. As far as I know all manual boxes interchange but some power boxes used different sized pitman arms. I could be wrong on the interchange I've never dealt with the pre-65 cars. Actually the thread is still on the first page of the steering forum. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:09 am ] |
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Quote: Serpentines are quieter and there's only one part number to keep for a spare.
Erm...properly-adjusted V-belts in good condition don't make noise, and even relatively loud V-belt drives cannot be heard over the high noise level in the engine room and passenger compartment of a '62 A-body, so noise is a nonissue. Three V-belts take up about the same trunk space as one serpentine belt, and serpentine belts cost more, so the one-part-number deal is a nonissue. And, remember, with a serpentine system, all it takes is ONE belt failure to lose ALL your belt-driven items. Quote: On the other hand, if it's a major hassle and expense there are probably better places to put my efforts.
That's how I feel about it.Quote: What about the steering? What years and models are interchangeable?
1962 through 1972 A- and B-body. The hugely overwhelming majority of factory boxes had the same slow 24:1 ratio (88.3 turns lock-to-lock...ok, it's really 5-3/4 turns, but it feels like 88.3!) you already have now. From '65-'69, there was a seldom-ordered option for fast-ratio manual steering. That box is 16:1, for 3-1/2 turns lock-to-lock. It was meant for circle-track racing. I've driven it on the street and found it thoroughly unpleasant and disagreeable. I will go so far as to say it managed to drain almost all the joy out of driving an early A-body on the street. Twitchy on the highway, bìtchy around town, and pretty near intractible when parking. Maybe borderline OK with stock tires, but who wants to run 185/80R13s? Not I. (There's now a brand-new 16:1 box with a steel housing instead of aluminum available from an aftermarket source. Perhaps there is a point to this item in some specific kind of racing. Me, I can't figure out why you'd want the extra weight and expense. The stock aluminum housing is quite strong indeed.)Just as Goldilocks found with the three bears' respective bowls of porridge, the one in the middle is juuuuuuust right: A 20:1 worm and ballnut available from Mopar Performance, P4007612. This guy gives the same excellent 20:1 ratio (4-1/2 turns lock-to-lock) as the '60-'61 Valiants and Lancers had. This box is an utter joy, cannot find a thing to dislike about it under any circumstances in my own '62 with 205/70R14s. Highly recommend it. I don't like power steering in the early A-bodies. They're light enough not to need it, the bracketry is a pain, less room in the engine bay, and it takes a great deal of expense to modify it to the point where you can begin to approach the level of road feel/feedback you can get from properly set-up manual steering. |
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| Author: | dakight [ Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:05 pm ] |
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Well cool! Thanks for the info. I have more questions but they probably belong in a different forum so I'll post there later. I had a 62 Signet many years ago and I'm really looking forward to getting this one on the road. Right now I'm gathering information and taking notes and I have to say I've learned a great deal in the 24 hours since I joined up. Great job guys! |
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| Author: | Rob Simmons [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:39 am ] |
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Hey David, Welcome to the Forum! It's great to have you here. Another great way to learn about these old Mopars is joining a local car club. I'm originally from Arizona and there are many Mopar guys driving and racing older Mopars. Check out www.moparsunlimitedofaz.com. There used to be a couple chapters of the Slant 6 Club of America that were active as well, but that was several years ago. They may still be around. Local clubs, both Mopar and Any Make, are great sources of information, parts and just getting to know people with similar interests. Good luck with your Signet and keep us posted on your progress. |
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:53 am ] |
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The steel manual steering box was, from what I've heard, built specifically to take repeated wheelstands. Some drag cars apparently had problems with the aluminum boxes cracking under that kind of abuse. Overkill unless you have problems keeping the front wheels on the ground. I've been trying to decide between replacing my original power steering box with a Firm Feel or a manual box. I plan to autocross it, so I'll have to turn the wheel pretty quickly some of the time. What ratio is a standard power steering box, anyway? Mine seems way too hard to turn when the engine shuts off. |
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| Author: | dakight [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:55 am ] |
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Rob, thanks for the info, and thanks for what you do! Stay safe! |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:39 am ] |
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The P/S box is 16:1 (3-1/2 turns lock to lock). Yes, power steering is much harder to turn when unpowered, and as I say, the quick-ratio manual box is a nuisance on the street. That said, remember, unpowered P/S isn't the same as nonpower steering (just as unboosted power brakes aren't the same as nonpower brakes). |
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| Author: | dakight [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:25 am ] |
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I see that Firm Feel has manual boxes in 24, 20, and 16:1 and they also have fast ratio pitman and idler arms but it looks like a linkage upgrade and newer box are required. I would love to have the power steering with the fast ratio arms for less than 3 turns lock to lock but I sure wouldn't want to horse around a manual setup at that ratio. Of course, there's always the AlterKtion front suspension with R&P... that looks like the ideal setup but they're proud of it! |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:39 am ] |
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Those fast-ratio pitman/idler arms don't work correctly in early A-bodies (and I'd stake money they don't work correctly in later A-bodies, either.) |
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| Author: | Matt Cramer [ Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:24 pm ] |
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Thanks, Dan. I've got a regular manual box I pulled out of a Valiant, and I may try swapping it in once I get the EFI project done. |
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