I would think you could just weld a baffle in the pan, instead of the windage tray?
Guess it depends?
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| head rebuild https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15518 |
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| Author: | oibrownskin [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | head rebuild |
I am currently having a cylinder head being remanufactured at the shop and it is going to be a stocker. it is off a 1966 225 slant six. But since the head is off, my father and I are talking about having the engine rebuilt now. This machine shop does excellent work and I am going to talk to him about a stock rebuild. Just using him for the machining of the block. Now I have some basic questions regarding machining. For a stock rebuild just have block checked, resurface the area where the head and the oil pan meet, flushed and acid dipped, cylinders honed, and the journals checked (align bored if needed). Now as far as additional equipment I was thinking of a windage tray, because everytime I have to brake hard my oil pressure DROPS through the floor and my light comes on FAST. Would over-boring the cylinders be a good idea right now, since i have to purchase new pistons and rings, anyway? And what about using the 198 rods on a 225 for a "longer throw" without actually stroking the motor? I know I would have to buy 6 new rods, while I already have 6 working rods. What are the measurements of the longer rods, and also what would need to be done to ensure I dont affect the compression ratio too drastically. I guess I am just asking a "what would you do if you were in my situation?" Money is DEFINTELY a factor, but a stronger engine wouldnt be a bad thing. head is going to be stock, but I could get a new cam, but what kind of grinds would work well with stock valve size? something with a bit more duration? I am going to resure my mechanical lifters and solid rocker arms as well. These parts are proven to be well engineered and manufactured so I have 100% CONFIDENCE in them. I will check the manual since most of the answers to my questions will be there also. SORRY for the long rant. Thanks for your time, hope the holidays were great for everyone. CAESAR |
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| Author: | Reed [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
While it is in the shop I would recommend yo have hardened valve seats installed. If you want to keep the motor mostly stock but upgrade the cam, I recommend stepping up the the 1971-1980 stock slant six camshaft. It is more aggressive camshaft than your stock 1966 unit but will still yield good gas mileage and driveability. If you have to purchase new pistons and rings, why not go oversize? If you have the money to spend on a "long rod" motor, again, why not? If I were you and was doing a slant six build trying to keep costs down, I would go with the smallest size overbore piston necessary to true up the cylinders, spend the money a good head rebuild including porting and polishing the valves and having hardened valve seats installed, get at least the 71-80 stock slant camshaft if not something one or two steps wilder. For a street driven slant you won't see much benefit from a "long rod" motor or overbored motor- the advantages just don't show up until you starting getting into drag racing. Besides, the 198 rods you need to use are getting hard to find (read expensive). If you are interested I have a good condition used camshaft from a 73 225 and a good set of used lifters. I also have several good condition used slant six "unleaded" cylinder heads with the revised combustion chamber but shipping would be expensive. THe best things you can do for a stock slant is to work on the valve ports and recurve your distributor. |
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| Author: | Rust collector [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would think you could just weld a baffle in the pan, instead of the windage tray? Guess it depends?
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| Author: | dakight [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I may be mistaken, but I don't think a windage tray will help the condition you're describing. A windage tray is designed to seperate the oil in the pan from the rotating crank assembly at high RPM. I don't believe a windage tray will impede the back and forth flow of oil in that pan at all. An oil pan baffle might help. I have never seen what you describe except when the engine is seriously low of oil, like 2 quarts or more down. Something just sounds out of order about that. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:40 pm ] |
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A windage tray won't solve that "runs out of oil on hard braking" problem, which may or may not actually be a real problem. You would have to throw the brakes on REALLY hard, going down a steep hill with REALLY big and grippy tires to slosh all the oil away from the pickup that way. The red "OIL" light is scary, to be sure, but usually what's going on with this symptom is that the sender is running out of oil, not the engine itself. The block-mounted senders are especially but not uniquely prone to it; it happens with pump-mounted senders as well. If there are no other symptoms of a worn engine—no knocks or clanks—and the bores look good when you pull the head, then simple installation of a new oil pump and pressure sender will probably solve the panicky oil light on the dash. |
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| Author: | oibrownskin [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | panicky light |
From what you are describing this is the condition I am experiencing. The engine doesnt knock, but sometimes "hick-ups". The cylinders look okay, just normal wear near the compression chamber. I will most likely look into new pump and sending units. Are there any advantages to windage trays or baffles in the pan for a basically stock engine? Caesar |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Not really, no. Save your $$. |
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| Author: | dakight [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
At very high RPM operation the oil can cling to the crank and tend to "wind" around it instead of draining to the pan to be recycled through the oil pump. This condition can lead to oil starvation. A windage tray, sometimes combined with a "crank scraper" tends to keep the oil in the pan better for high speed lubrication. A stock slant under normal driving will never see the kind of conditions that make a windage tray necessary or even helpful. |
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| Author: | Kevin Johnson [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:17 am ] |
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Quote: At very high RPM operation the oil can cling to the crank and tend to "wind" around it instead of draining to the pan to be recycled through the oil pump. This condition can lead to oil starvation. A windage tray, sometimes combined with a "crank scraper" tends to keep the oil in the pan better for high speed lubrication. A stock slant under normal driving will never see the kind of conditions that make a windage tray necessary or even helpful.
We now know that most slant sixes have severe problems with windage -- the oil being whipped up by the crank. It is a bigger problem with slants than with most others because of the pan design.
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