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| Old AFB With No Mechanical Secondaries https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16015 |
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| Author: | imnoisydart [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Old AFB With No Mechanical Secondaries |
Put together a 69 Dart w/ Clifford Headers, 3.55 Sure Grip, Reverse Manual Valve Body, 4 bl. Intake an an old AFB which I rebuilt orig. from a 65 Imperial. The car runs pretty good but when I step on it WOT it bogs. I'm wondering if this is because it does not have a mechanical secondary valve (not missing- different design which doesn't incorporate it). I have a later 9410 AFB 400 CFM which has the valve which I was thinking of switching and trying. Any thoughts ??? |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:42 pm ] |
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That's probably your problem. Plus, those carbs flow around 550 cfm. The no secondary enrichment works OK on a big cube mill like a 413 with lots of pump shot, but bog city on your little slant six. If I had a 400 cfm carb (and I do! D/W |
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| Author: | imnoisydart [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:34 am ] |
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Thanks Dennis- sounds like no way I can make that carb work right with that limitation. I'll try my 400 AFB- was reluctant to originally because it was kind of a nasty old core before I freshened it up and I was never able to get all of the 4 jets out due to heavy corrosion. |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:43 am ] |
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Quote: Thanks Dennis- sounds like no way I can make that carb work right with that limitation.
Been there, done that. Mag wheel acid (the phosphoric acid stuff for uncoated wheels) helps on the heavily corroded ones. Your main concern is gonna be flakes of oxidation in the passages, so treat them, rinse and blow with compressed air repeatedly. I don't bother trying to get the jets out if it feels like the screwdriver's just gonna twist them off, I'd rather have them stuck than buggered up. I have had parts carbs where I used heat and penetrating oil for hours and even then had to practically melt the damn carb out from around the jets! I'll try my 400 AFB- was reluctant to originally because it was kind of a nasty old core before I freshened it up and I was never able to get all of the 4 jets out due to heavy corrosion. D/W |
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| Author: | imnoisydart [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:18 am ] |
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Thanks again Dennis! Any chance you would want to part with your 400 AFB which is probably in much better shape than mine? Forgot to say that the reason I wanted to be able to remove the jets is to have the option to use others, as this is going to be a street and bracket racer. Wanted to be able to use other jets w/o having to drill mine (w/ chips) |
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| Author: | 440_Magnum [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old AFB With No Mechanical Secondaries |
Quote: Put together a 69 Dart w/ Clifford Headers, 3.55 Sure Grip, Reverse Manual Valve Body, 4 bl. Intake an an old AFB which I rebuilt orig. from a 65 Imperial. The car runs pretty good but when I step on it WOT it bogs.
Ah yes. That's an oddball carb on several fronts. Its a small 4-barrel made to run on a BIG engine, in a BIG car, providing a lot of low-end torque and adequate high-speed power. It also has a smaller-than-normal air horn (same size as the large 2-bbl used on 383 engines) so finding an air cleaner that works will be interesting. There's no secondary air damper because its intended to be on an engine almost twice the displacement of a slant-6, which can handle the sudden opening of all 4 barrels. It does have mechanical secondaries, but the issue is that it has no air damper to bring them on-line slowly. I wouldn't think you could ever tune it to run well on a small engine. I'd go with the 9410.
I'm wondering if this is because it does not have a mechanical secondary valve (not missing- different design which doesn't incorporate it). I have a later 9410 AFB 400 CFM which has the valve which I was thinking of switching and trying. Any thoughts ??? |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old AFB With No Mechanical Secondaries |
Quote: Thanks again Dennis!
Yes, I'll gladly sell it to you for $3,500 and you get a whole 15 sec Duster with it.Any chance you would want to part with your 400 AFB which is probably in much better shape than mine? Forgot to say that the reason I wanted to be able to remove the jets is to have the option to use others, as this is going to be a street and bracket racer. Wanted to be able to use other jets w/o having to drill mine (w/ chips) D/W |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old AFB With No Mechanical Secondaries |
Quote: Quote: Put together a 69 Dart w/ Clifford Headers, 3.55 Sure Grip, Reverse Manual Valve Body, 4 bl. Intake an an old AFB which I rebuilt orig. from a 65 Imperial. The car runs pretty good but when I step on it WOT it bogs.
Ah yes. That's an oddball carb on several fronts. Its a small 4-barrel made to run on a BIG engine, in a BIG car, providing a lot of low-end torque and adequate high-speed power. It also has a smaller-than-normal air horn (same size as the large 2-bbl used on 383 engines) so finding an air cleaner that works will be interesting. There's no secondary air damper because its intended to be on an engine almost twice the displacement of a slant-6, which can handle the sudden opening of all 4 barrels. It does have mechanical secondaries, but the issue is that it has no air damper to bring them on-line slowly. I wouldn't think you could ever tune it to run well on a small engine. I'd go with the 9410.I'm wondering if this is because it does not have a mechanical secondary valve (not missing- different design which doesn't incorporate it). I have a later 9410 AFB 400 CFM which has the valve which I was thinking of switching and trying. Any thoughts ??? |
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| Author: | sixinthehead [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:12 pm ] |
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Were these carbs used on 273 Commandos too? I had one on my 318 (used the original Commando air cleaner and crinkle covers too), but the bog wouldn't go away even though it ran sweet otherwise. |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Forgot to say that the reason I wanted to be able to remove
That makes good sense. You can do a lot with just the metering rods on the primaries, though, and you'll probably have to solder and re-drill the secondary jets anyhow, since the sizes you need are pretty much made from unobtainium.the jets is to have the option to use others, as this is going to be a street and bracket racer. Wanted to be able to use other jets w/o having to drill mine (w/ chips) D/W |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Were these carbs used on 273 Commandos too? I had one on my 318 (used the original Commando air cleaner and crinkle covers too), but the bog wouldn't go away even though it ran sweet otherwise.
I've only seen the non-air door AFB's on big cars. All the 273 AFB's I've seen have the air door. You can adjust by adding or removing weight (a pain). A lot of the bog can come from primary metering that is slightly too lean, or not quite enough pump shot or duration especially.D/W |
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| Author: | imnoisydart [ Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey Dennis- How about you list the Duster on Ebag "Buy It Now" for $4000, perfect running car minus only the carb. Then send said carb to me. I get a free carb, you get an extra $500. Hey the joys on being a tycoon! Seriously though, thanks for all the advice. Looks like I'll never be happy w/ the oddball carb and if I spray it, it even sounds dangerous. |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Hey Dennis-
Do a search (like eBag) for the following original AFB's for a 273:How about you list the Duster on Ebag "Buy It Now" for $4000, perfect running car minus only the carb. Then send said carb to me. I get a free carb, you get an extra $500. Hey the joys on being a tycoon! Seriously though, thanks for all the advice. Looks like I'll never be happy w/ the oddball carb and if I spray it, it even sounds dangerous. 4119S 4120S 4121S 4122S 4294S 4295S 4304S 4305S These should all be the 400 cfm variety that cam on Dart and Valiant 273 V8's in '66 and '67, although I haven't seen them all. The one in bold is the one installed on my Duster. The one you have is a 9000 series Carter aftermarket AFB, which is likely harder to find than an OEM one. D/W |
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| Author: | imnoisydart [ Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Dennis- after digging out my 9410 AFB, I found the metering rods and springs are missing. Can you or anyone tell me what size rods were in that carb, or in the equivalent 4294S carb you have on your car? Also, do you know the orig. sizes of the primary jets? |
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| Author: | Dennis Weaver [ Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Thanks Dennis-
.086 mains if memory serves correctly. I can't remember on the rods, I have it written down somewhere, I think they're .065 or .067 on the small end. I think I have the secondaries in the .055 - .065 range (staggered). after digging out my 9410 AFB, I found the metering rods and springs are missing. Can you or anyone tell me what size rods were in that carb, or in the equivalent 4294S carb you have on your car? Also, do you know the orig. sizes of the primary jets? I think the .086 jets were extant in the carb from the 273 application, I believe it came with .083 secondary jets for the V8. D/W |
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