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 Post subject: engine rebuild
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 11:20 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Location: Boulder Colorado
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I threw a rod. So its time for a rebuild. I work and go to school so I have to let a garage do the work and having just moved here I'm not familiar with anyone in the automotive repair business. So Im looking for some advice.
1.What questions should I ask these guys before I get started?

2.I need a daily driver that is reliable and relatively fuel efficient as I put a lot of miles on the Dart. so

3. What should be the miniumum of work for the rebuild? what should I do for shaving, porting, springs, rods, etc? I am not familiar with this aspect of auto repair in the least. I have read a lot of posts on this site but don't pretend to understand them.

4. I have a super six set up in the garage, so I am calling the old carb doc to see how fast I can get that carter rebuilt. I was going to have the shop install it since they're doing all this work anyway.

My thoughts are:
A. get all new MOPAR gaskets and seals, no cork, no Fel-Pro, just good Dodge Rubber.
B. make sure they know the RIGHT way to set up a super six and hook up the manifold so it isn't prone to cracking. I have the Factory Service Manual and have printed out detailed instructions from this site on super six installation.
C. do only what needs to be done to make her reliable and fuel efficient.
D. the water pump and fuel pump have been replaced in the last 5-10 months. but i have no idea how old the oil pump is. Should i replace it just in case? what about resealing the oil pan with a new gasket? i know it leaks at least a little.
The bad news is this is going to have to go on a credit card until I can work it off.
The good news is I will have a much peppier slant when I am done.

God just decided it was time for her to get a rebuild. How can I argue with that? At least I'm putting in work on a beautiful car and not a 1989 Nissan Sentra.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 11:47 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Location: Boulder Colorado
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just talked to the old carb doc. he has a 2 month wait time. that means no super six, at least for now. because i will be working way too much over next year to do the super six myself. oh well

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 Post subject: Re: engine rebuild
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:05 pm 
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Location: North America
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Quote:
I threw a rod. So its time for a rebuild. I work and go to school so I have to let a garage do the work
That could be difficult—most places will want to swap in a "remanufactured" engine, unless you're supplying them with a rebuildable engine, and even then, it is often difficult to find a place that does actual in-house engine rebuilding and installation. Is your present engine intact except for the broken rod? Or did the rod punch a window in the side of the block? That will help determine the answers to some of your other questions (what questions to ask, minimum work to be done, etc.)
Quote:
I have a super six set up in the garage, so I am calling the old carb doc to see how fast I can get that carter rebuilt.
He's got a long backlog. You may want to check with Carbs Only or Carbs Unlimited or The Carburetor Shop.
Quote:
A. get all new MOPAR gaskets and seals, no cork, no Fel-Pro, just good Dodge Rubber.
Doesn't make sense. In the first place, plenty of cork gaskets were used originally by Chrysler. In the second place, there's nothing wrong with quality aftermarket gaskets (Victor-Reinz from NAPA, for example, or Fel-Pro), and there's no longer any guarantee that stuff you buy at a Mopar dealer (for a 31-year-old car!) is offered at the same quality level as it was in 1975.
Quote:
The bad news is this is going to have to go on a credit card until I can work it off.
I wonder if you might be better off to install a working used engine for now, which would cost less money, take less time, and buy you time to save up money to build up your engine the way you want (maybe even doing some of the work yourself, since you'd in that case have time to learn and study). Pickings aren't too bountiful in used slant-6s in Georgia, per www.car-part.com , but I do find several prospects that could be at least decent enough to keep you rolling for a few years. Oh, hey, you're not too far from the Bayer Boys, and I bet they have at least one decent-running slant-6 engine for sale. For that matter, they build slant-6s all the time, and they install them, too. Perhaps you'd do well to get with them on this project.

Bayer Boys
7464 Bankhead Highway
Douglasville , GA 30134 - 1642
bayerboys@mindspring.com
( 770 ) 577 - 3138
( 770 )577 - 7447

Tell 'em Dan Stern sent ya.

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 Post subject: Re: engine rebuild
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:06 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:33 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Rolla, MO
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Quote:
In the second place, there's nothing wrong with quality aftermarket gaskets (Victor-Reinz from NAPA, for example, or Fel-Pro)...
Woah.... did Dan just reccomend a Federal-Mogul product?!? :shock: :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:48 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Posts: 380
Location: California
Car Model: 1964 Dart GT
If I were a student, I would get a friend with a truck, go to a junkyard and buy a complete slant (the same year and car if possible) and get back on the road. You can always upgrade when you are ready to.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:02 pm 
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If I were a student, I would get a friend with a truck, go to a junkyard and buy a complete slant (the same year and car if possible) and get back on the road. You can always upgrade when you are ready to.
Couple of things here:

1) In the year 2006-and-a-half, the odds of finding a good slant-6 engine in a wrecking yard are very slim...even if you do a preliminary search via network, as I suggested above. You might find a rebuildable unit. On the other hand, if you're after a decent used 2.5 litre 4-cylinder for your '94 Plymouth Acclaim, it's pretty much point 'n' shoot; won't take you more than half a dozen phone calls to find just the one you want.

2) "Same year and car if possible" not only greatly reduces the already-slim odds of finding a suitable unit, but is needlessly restrictive. Interchange on the engine at hand is MUCH wider than "1975-only, 1975 Dart-only".

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 Post subject: Re: engine rebuild
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:03 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
In the second place, there's nothing wrong with quality aftermarket gaskets (Victor-Reinz from NAPA, for example, or Fel-Pro)...
Woah.... did Dan just reccomend a Federal-Mogul product?!? :shock: :shock:
There's still some decent stuff left in their line...for now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 5:40 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:32 pm
Posts: 380
Location: California
Car Model: 1964 Dart GT
Quote:
Quote:
If I were a student, I would get a friend with a truck, go to a junkyard and buy a complete slant (the same year and car if possible) and get back on the road. You can always upgrade when you are ready to.
Couple of things here:

1) In the year 2006-and-a-half, the odds of finding a good slant-6 engine in a wrecking yard are very slim...even if you do a preliminary search via network, as I suggested above. You might find a rebuildable unit. On the other hand, if you're after a decent used 2.5 litre 4-cylinder for your '94 Plymouth Acclaim, it's pretty much point 'n' shoot; won't take you more than half a dozen phone calls to find just the one you want.
E Pluribus Unum
E Pluribus Unum

2) "Same year and car if possible" not only greatly reduces the already-slim odds of finding a suitable unit, but is needlessly restrictive. Interchange on the engine at hand is MUCH wider than "1975-only, 1975 Dart-only".
What year is it? Oh wow time has passed :shock: . Do you really want a 4 cyl. Acclaim? :roll: ? :roll: ? :roll: ? :roll: ? :wink: Again, I would suggest finding a decent slant (check it out) and throw that baby in there. Everytime I go to the boneyard I see atleast 10 of them if not more. Last one I got was in very good working order so there are some out there. Try and find one from the same era or year if you have a choice so you don't have any surprises. Unbolting specific parts from your old one might not be so easy from the looks of it. That is my suggestion ( and I think its the right one :wink: ).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:06 pm 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:34 am
Posts: 222
Location: Boulder Colorado
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thanks to all.
i would prefer to just do it all now and do it right. "never put off until tomorrow what you can accomplish today." i don't want to take chances with this happening again and I don't want to deal with it in the future.

that said, I called the bayer boys and got the one who isn't named kenny. he told me to call in the morning and speak to kenny. they are putting a /6 in an 84 dodge van currently.

and im going to call the carburetor places suggested tommorow as well to see if i can't make the super six happen after all. that would be ideal.

dan, reason i made the comment about the mopar rubber gaskets, i remember someone writing to use those for the valve cover as they are superior to all others. just took that one thing as a metaphor for everything. which might work in poems but isn't good for car repair.

besides, i have a good rate on the credit card and i have a 2 week break between quarters so i can just get a second job. and still never sleep. and have a dart with a little kick under the hood. this one was tired.

block is solid by the way, quit driving before more damage was done.

so if i can get someone recommended here to rebuild this engine that is optimal route for me. if not...?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:56 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:22 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Eugene OR
Car Model:
Used engines can be good. I bought a motor and trans. for $49 on eBay, put the motor in my '65 Belvedere without even looking at it, and it ran strong in Redding(ask Doug Dutra). It got 18.5 mpg for the 700 mile trip, including 4 1/2 miles on the strip. Since then I have been given two more motors.(don't know if they run...) If you look around you can find good slants for cheap. Hope all goes good for you. Paul


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:08 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:33 pm
Posts: 745
Location: Rolla, MO
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The slant I picked up to rebuild easily had 70k miles left to go on it. I'd be willing to wager that there are a lot of the slants w/ aluminum intakes sitting in yards because the floor cracked and led to nasty drivability problems. Pop that off, put on your old one, and you'll be good to go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:13 pm 
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Quote:
block is solid by the way, quit driving before more damage was done.
Oh, well, there y'go. Set up a time and get the Bayer Boys to do it for you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:01 am 
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TBI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:34 am
Posts: 222
Location: Boulder Colorado
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just got off the phone with kenny bayer. he wants 2500 for just the engine rebuild and between 2500 and 3000 for the engine and the super six including doing the carburetor.
that is a little steep for me. i really want the rebuilt slant with the super six but i'm going to be killing myself trying to pay it off. however, this car does have a new cooling system, new brake system, new ignition coil, new exhaust 2 1/4 all the way back, new shocks and leaf springs. the only things that aren't new are the alternator, tranny, oil pump, and the front suspension stuff like control arms and i don't think i have to worry about the transmission.
so what do you think? crapshoot with another old slant to save some money, or do it right and have something i can keep for a long time. how long would it last, another 10 years? or is that too optimistic? i dont want to sell her, just drive her until my kids can drive her. and i haven't had kids yet.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:56 am 
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Quote:
just got off the phone with kenny bayer. he wants 2500 for just the engine rebuild and between 2500 and 3000 for the engine and the super six including doing the carburetor. that is a little steep for me.
Yeah...it's kind of "decision time" for you. $2500 for removing, overhauling and reinstalling the engine, with quality parts, skillful machinework and careful labor is pert near the going rate these days. Heck, with just a little upgrading of internal components and special machinework, just the engine buildup alone can easily cost that! I'm sure you can find the job quoted for less, but you'd definitely be giving up something. Parts quality and/or machinework skill and/or careful labor.

On the other hand, $500 for the Super Six changeover is too high. Not sure how he arrives at that figure.
Quote:
i really want the rebuilt slant with the super six but i'm going to be killing myself trying to pay it off.
OK, so, go to plan "B", find a good-running slant-6, swap it in, drive and enjoy while you lay aside money and plans to build up the car's original engine the way you want as time and money allow.

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