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Distributor basics?
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19161		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:45 am ]
Post subject:  Distributor basics?
Dan, in pusuit of your earlier comments about the types of distributors that are available for the slant, let me ask a few basic questions.

Could you list the varients that are available to us at this point? HAll effects, other mag pick up types? Can any of the V-6 Mopars be used?

What is the difference between an even fire, and an odd fire set up, and why would that matter to the distributor? I know the firing order on a slant is 1-5-3-6-2-4. I can see that the even numbers are all first, and the odd ones second, and I see that it is symetrical, and balanced in it's pattern, but I don;t understand why the distributor cares about this. I have read in another forum that using the Mopar v-6 distributors are out of the question since they are odd fire, or maybe I have that backwards. In any event, why can;t you order the wires on the cap in the appropriate order for whatever? Why does the firing order of the engine you take the distributor from make ay difference to the engine you are putting it into?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us here.
Sam
Author:  dakight [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:07 am ]
Post subject: 
http://home.off-road.com/~merls_garage/oddfire.html
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Distributor basics?
Quote:
Could you list the varients that are available to us at this point?
Points type updated w/Pertronix pickup and magnet wheel
Electronic type, single pickup, w/centrifugal and vacuum advance
Electronic type, dual pickup, w/centrifugal and w/o vacuum advance
Electronic type, dual pickup, w/o advance
Quote:
Hall effects
Nope, all the factory electronic types are magnetic-pickup.
Quote:
Can any of the V-6 Mopars be used?
That is an interesting question. The 1988-1991 TBI 3.9 V6s in trucks and RWD vans used a Hall effect pickup in the non-advancing distributor. Those distributors are of the V8 design pattern (the 3.9 being a V8 with two cylinders lopped off) but could perhaps provide the internal parts for you to make your own non-advancing, Hall effect slant-6 distributor.

Image
Quote:
What is the difference between an even fire, and an odd fire set up, and why would that matter to the distributor?
Note that odd-fire/even-fire really involves the ignition system only tangentially. It's nothing to do with the firing order, it's to do with the points in the engine's rotation at which a power stroke occurs. Note that it is not possible to make an even-fire 90° V6. Only straight 6s and V6s with cylinder bank separation angles of 60° or 120° (or presumably 30°) can be set up to fire at even 120° intervals; the 90° V6s that result from chopping two cylinders off a V8 are by necessity odd-fire. There aren't any odd-fire slant-6s. There are some odd-fire V6s. This page does a great job explaining how odd-fire V6s work and the implications for distributor construction as applied by GM to the HEI distributor. Other makers' solutions have differed.
Quote:
I have read in another forum that using the Mopar v-6 distributors are out of the question since they are odd fire
You can't install the V6 distributor in the slant-6 engine, it won't fit. Can the parts be adapted? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't examined the Hall effect shutter wheel blades to see whether they're evenly or oddly spaced. My guess is that they are oddly spaced. Perhaps you would have to fabricate your own new shutter wheel. If you do this, remember the blades have to be made out of steel, otherwise the magic won't work!
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:03 am ]
Post subject: 
I looked into the posibility of using slant six dist parts in a LA v-8 distributor to do away with the computer control in a carb Dakota. The V-8 dist will fit the V-6, but it will not work, do to the odd fire/even fire difference. The timing will not be correct on all cylinders. The same problem will occur when trying to use the V-6 dist parts on a slant. My question is "why bother". There are so many good "drop in" ignitions for the slant.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
My question is "why bother". There are so many good "drop in" ignitions for the slant.
My sense is that this is an effort to save a substantial investment that's already been made in the Accel equipment rather than having to start all over from scratch.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Distributor basics?
Quote:
[ Note that it is not possible to make an even-fire 90° V6. Only straight 6s and V6s with cylinder bank separation angles of 60° or 120° (or presumably 30°) can be set up to fire at even 120° intervals; the 90° V6s that result from chopping two cylinders off a V8 are by necessity odd-fire.!
It is possible, by offseting the rod throws on the crank. GM did this with some Buick V-6's
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Distributor basics?
Quote:
Quote:
[ Note that it is not possible to make an even-fire 90° V6.
It is possible, by offseting the rod throws on the crank. GM did this with some Buick V-6's
Oh yeah, those.

Well, IIRC, those engines went to show that just because something can be done, doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea! :shock:
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
That was a great explanation of the odd fire thing, and certainly clears up why an odd fire distributor cannot be used on an inline six. So what are these great drop in ignitions for slant six? Charlie, can you elaborate a little more on tht idea please? Dan, or course you are right. If I had it to do over again, I would go with the SDS system , but I don;t want to throw away 1600 dollars at this point. Thanks.
Sam
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
So what are these great drop in ignitions for slant six? Charlie, can you elaborate a little more on tht idea please? Thanks.
Sam
I have lost track of what you are trying to accomplish, by changing the dist. Do you want to trigger the Accel unit, or eliminate it for testing purposes? What does the Accel unit require for a trigger? For a distributor, I think the slant six electronic would be fine. Since the Accel unit has programable timing capabilities (it does, doen't it?), you could use the "lean burn" dist, and eliminate timing variances in the dist. The dist would just be a "cam" sensor. Why do you need the MSD, and the Accel unit?
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Distributor basics?
Quote:
Points type updated w/Pertronix pickup and magnet wheel
Electronic type, single pickup, w/centrifugal and vacuum advance
Electronic type, dual pickup, w/centrifugal and w/o vacuum advance
Electronic type, dual pickup, w/o advance
There is also an electronic type single pickup with no advance mechanism. I've got one and plan to use it on my buildup. Mallory made a few distributors for the slant - they're out of production but sometimes turn up on eBay. I don't know much about them.

All of the pickups are the same type of variable reluctor sensor, except for the Pertronix.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Distributor basics?
Quote:
Mallory made a few distributors for the slant - they're out of production but sometimes turn up on eBay. I don't know much about them
They came two ways: With dual breaker points, or with Mallory's UniLite breakerless setup. UniLite uses an optical sensor with shutter wheel.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Charlie, the Accel ECM does not actually fire a coil, it will fire an ignition box like an MSD. I am not sure what I am trying to accomplish. The presnt mopar electronic mag pickup is not being recognized by the Accel ECM. It will not run as a result. No spark, no injector pulse.

At this point I am just expooring alternatives so that when Fred tells me where we stand, I will know something about my laternatives. Thanks again to all for thinking abou this. What do we know about the Jeep inline 6? Is the dist anything that can be used for the slant? Does it look like it has modifying possibilities? How about the inards of the Jeep inside the bowel of the Slant? .
Sam
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
If the Accel is designed to work with SBC I would be tempted to use a 7 pin GM HEI module external to the lean fire distributor,,,,its a simple 2 wire job ....allows for ECU triggering and timing control....and they are pretty bulletproof(even for me)

7 pins are grouped in 3 parts....#1 for a separate HEI coil contains 2 wires....#2 2 wires to the pickup and #3 ...the others are to the ECU for triggering and timing control. (sorry.... Im 3000 miles from wiring diagrams for the colour codes on the ecu wires)

The basic wiring is the same as the 4 pin ,,,,Accel makes a good 7 pin replacement module....I get mine from Summit.


(signing off from the East Coast.....home on thur)
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with Sandy. Use the GM HEI module with the slant six fixed "timing" lean burn" dist. The Accel ECM, will then think it is on a Chebby, and should work.
PS: Does the Accel unit have the ability to fire a DIS coil pack?
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks to both Charlie, and Sandy. I have printed out these comments, and the diagram from the Mega Squirt site, and will give that to Fred Tomorrow with the box of distributors. Maybe he will inow how to configure and wire the Hei Module into the ACcel harness. This is what I wanted to do two weeks ago, but Accel seemed unable to tell me how to do it.

Charlie, what is a DIS coil pack? Have I said before I have a lot to learn here? :lol:
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