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Should I Turbo my 225?
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19194		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Brian [ Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Should I Turbo my 225?
I have spent some time reading the turbo topics on this forum and think it is time to start gathering parts to turbo a 225 for my 71 Demon project. My plan is to build the car as driver, get decent gas milage, and run at the drag strip every now and then. I plan on using some of these parts. A cast iron 2 BBL intake and carb, a MP 460" lift cam and a turbo out of a older 2.2L motor. The motor will have a complete rebuild, head work with oversize valves and backed by a 833 OD trans with a 10" Mcleod flywheel/pressure plate setup. I have no experience with a turbo at all, but I am able to weld and fab up parts pretty well. Will the 2.2L turbo be too small? Is this turbo project something I should go for?,or did I loose my mind again :twisted: I have read about carb problems with this setup, but I have seen it done with success using a Carter 2BBL carb. Any input would be great. Thanks, Brian
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would go for it. The turbo for 2.2 is a bit to small in IMHO. You need somthing alittle bigger so it want go iinto compressor surge easy & spool to quick. I am not to sure if you can get a Two barrel that size to flow enough fuel though, maybe you can but I just dont know. The Holley 500 2 barrel would be a better choice, there is alot of info on setting up the Holley for blo-thu turbo & it would cross over to the 500 Holley pretty easy.


Go to TurboMustang.com , there is a Blo-Tru section there that will give you alot of info on doing this. They even have a write up on how to mod the Holley and make it work good for this type of setup.

You are just about going to have to go for a turbo that is able to give about 500HP to get a good balance, I am sure some will not agree, but if you go to small it will not last as good & will heat the air to much. Of course you want have to turn the boost up that high and can have a easy 300-400hp on low pump gas boost levels 8 to 15 PSI.


A T04E 57 trim would be a good choice & give about 270 to 320hp at 10psi & going upto 14 to 18psi could get you 350 to 400hp. Just a guesstament there by running the numbers through a turbo calculator. This turbo can take you up to 500hp if you wanted to with the right mods & fuel.


Jess
Author:  DionR [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 
I think the 2.2/2.5 turbo is too small. That said, I'm going to run a hybrid of one on mine.

The compressor is the real problem, much too small. It will overheat the air trying to flow enough to supply the engine. I have a TO4E compressor housing and wheel I am going to install on my TO3 (2.2/2.5 turbo). I only need to buy a backplate to make the swap.

The 2.2/2.5 turbine is marginal on 225. The .48 stock housing is good to about 300 hp on the trans 4, so I figure it will be ok on my 225, and a .63 housing isn't that expensive. I am hoping it will make for a quick spool, but still work to 5500 rpm. If not, I move up. Bonus is it has an internal wastegate so I don't have to buy and plumb an external one.

IMO, I would stay away from a 500 cfm 2 bbl. With a turbo, the carb airflow isn't the problem, it's fuel flow. There are plenty of people making huge hp numbers will 600 cfm holleys.

The problem you run into with a 2 bbl as opposed to a 4 bbl is that a 4 bbl can be tuned to flow enough fuel on the secondaries for boost, but still run well on the primaries without boost. A 2 bbl doesn't have the range to make it work well. The one guy I know of that has made a 2bbl work well on a turbo inline six on the dragstrip just deals with being too rich when not in the boost.

My plan is to try some kind of alternate enrichment setup with the 2 bbl. Something like a couple of injectors that turn on when boost hits 2 psi. I'm still a long ways from having to deal with it, so I only have ideas.
Author:  Avenger2040 [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Would a Cirrus 2002 turbo work in a Slant?, just curious ´cause I can get a couple of them almost for free.
Author:  Guest [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:57 am ]
Post subject: 
If you want to go real fast and still have streetability, go forth and turbocharge/intercool.
Author:  DionR [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Would a Cirrus 2002 turbo work in a Slant?, just curious ´cause I can get a couple of them almost for free.
Not a clue what size they are, but if they are like the turbo on my wifes PT Cruiser, probably not. We can't seem to figure out how to stay out of the boost in that thing, and it's not because we want to go fast. I think we could get some decent mileage, but the car just seems to like boost so we are below a regular minivan for average mileage. That was the justification I used to get the PT, it was rated higher than the minivan for mileage, but it ain't delivering so far.

Besides that, the turbine is part of the exhaust manifold.

Come to think of it, the turbo 2.4's you have use a seperate exhaust manifold and turbine housing, so I bet they are different.

Any idea on the specs of the turbos on the Cirrus?
Author:  DionR [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Not a clue what size they are, but if they are like the turbo on my wifes PT Cruiser, probably not. We can't seem to figure out how to stay out of the boost in that thing, and it's not because we want to go fast.
What I mean is, the thing seems to spool way to easily on a 2.4, so I figure it would just choke a 3.7 (225).
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:50 am ]
Post subject: 
The Buick Grand national Turbo, which is what I have on this car, is perfect for the slant. I don;t know what it is, but you could easily find out on the Buick GN websites out there. I bought it from Rance several years ago. It was NOS, and something he had lying around. The boost doesn't come on too easily, but it is rather seamless in it's approach. I am never aware of turbo lag with it. Make no mistake about it, when you go into boost, you use HUGE amounts of gas. you just have to put that gas in there when you cram alot of air in. So don;t make your unit too small. Would I do it again? probably, but I wouldn't fool myself into thinking Iwas going to get good gas mileage with a turbo.
Sam
Author:  panic [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:14 am ]
Post subject: 
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Author:  DionR [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The Buick Grand national Turbo, which is what I have on this car, is perfect for the slant.
I agree, size wise, the GN turbo is just about right. My biggest complaint is the three bolt turbine inlet flange. It's not a problem if you use a J-tube style setup, but I just can't get away from the feeling that a J-tube is inefficient. You loose heat and you ask the exhaust to make a turn that is over 180 degrees. If you try and mount the GN direct to the manifold, the 3 bolt arrangement really gets in the way.

On the flip side, you get a turbo that is almost ideally suited for a 225 and you don't have to mod the exhaust manifold.

6 of one, half dozen of the other, but I still lean to the side of a traditional T3 flange (or a Chrylser style T3). Maybe if the turbine housing could be swapped for little cost, then it would work great.
Author:  DionR [ Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Would I do it again? probably, but I wouldn't fool myself into thinking Iwas going to get good gas mileage with a turbo.
Sam
I think the trick is to figure out how to get the fuel in when needed, but keep it lean when not boosted. One of the great reasons for EFI.

That said, I know of at least one guy with a 1000+ (and I mean plus) SB ford with a carb that gets over 20 mpg on the highway. That number might be overall average, I don't remember. Either way, I still beleive a turbo can (not will) deliver the best of both worlds.
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