Quote:
Will a stock 2000 stall converter let me shift from Park to Drive without slamming in to gear and having to really hold the brakes if the engine is set to 1300 RPM idle?
No. 
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| Torque converters https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20106 |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Torque converters |
As some of you may know I ve got a 260 stroker build at the machine shop. (74 crank) Well today we talked about T-converters and what my plans were. I had planned on in the future using V8 internals, lower 1st gear and 2500 stall TC. However, right now so I can still drive to the car shows and not spend all that money on the trans work, just use my stock trans and TC. (67 small input shaft). My builder with a sigh says "eh not unless you want to wear out the cam trying to idle it low enough to drive it. You need a minuim 1500 stall just to drive it and it sould be a 2500 stall to be right" If it was just buying the 2500 stall TC I'd do it, but it would not work later when I build the right trans which will have a large input shaft. What are my options here? Can I send my stock converter out and have the stall changed to 1500 or 2500 to get me by or does this cost the same as a custom TC? I also have the reducing crank ring for the older TC nose by the way. I am definently not a trans man so changing the input shaft would be something a trans shop would do. If I go this far I'd likely go all the way on the trans usless its a quick and easy swap in which I'd then order the 2500 stall TC and be done with it. Then later build the trans and be abl;e to use the TC again. Your thoughts please. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:16 am ] |
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What cam will you be using? The stock stall is 1700-2000, depending on motor torque. Lou |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I know its above .5 gross lift. We've changed things around a few times so I don't remember, but he said it going to idle about 1300 RPM to stay running. |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:45 am ] |
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If my engine is idleing at 1300 RPM and I put it in gear won't it slam in to gear? |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, it will slam pretty hard with a stock TC. That would have to be a very big cam to require idle at 1300 if it's tuned right. I'd like to know duration @0.050". Lou |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Yes, it will slam pretty hard with a stock TC. That would have to be a very big cam to require idle at 1300 if it's tuned right. I'd like to know duration @0.050".
Me too. My .558 Clifford will idle at 900, but only after I blocked the distributor so I could have 18* or so initial.Lou Some cam manufacturers ask for an excessively high idle to "oil the lifters". I think it's a smokescreen to cover the junk lifters that have been produced lately. Personally, I would go at least 3000 stall. Why scrimp on something that will make or break the car? |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
the 2500 stall converter was an effort to retain some fuel mileage. I'll have to get back to you on the cam specs. He did say that we were going to run about 230-250 lbs spring pressure. I believe that is open pressure. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:27 pm ] |
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I got 20+ mpg with my hot cammed 64 and a 3600 stall converter - don't sweat that too much. I agree on going 3000+ on the converter. A well done 9.5 or 10" will be pretty efficient when cruising at 3000+ rpm. Lou |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I ve been told that my stock TC is likely a 2000 stall. Well I'll cut and paste my information. Thank you for your inquiry. For the most part the TF-904 converters were all high-stalls up to the mid-1970's; at that time Chrysler began manufacturing some low-stall versions, usually marked with a "round-cornered lime green triangle" sticker with the words "LO STALL" printed. So it's likely the 1967 converter has the same stall spec as your "1972" unit, however the "PK4028" series of numbers indicate a late-1970's/early 1980's vintage; you might have a high-stall NON-lockup converter, a low stall NON-lockup, a high-stall LOCKUP or a low-stall LOCKUP ? You can install the complete later model TF-904 in your 1967 car or use the input shaft/rear clutch assembly and rear half of the pump to convert the 1967 unit. You did not mention which size Slant 6 you are using; stall spec for the 170 engine is aprox. 1700 RPM, the 198 engine is aprox. 1800 RPM and the 225 engine is aprox. 2000 RPM. My question is: Is a stock 2000 stall converter the same as an aftermarket 2000 stall converter? ( not concerning quality) I am just trying to get by right now. Will a stock 2000 stall converter let me shift from Park to Drive without slamming in to gear and having to really hold the brakes if the engine is set to 1300 RPM idle? |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Will a stock 2000 stall converter let me shift from Park to Drive without slamming in to gear and having to really hold the brakes if the engine is set to 1300 RPM idle?
No.
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| Author: | AnotherSix [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The cold start high idle setting is a little higher than that from the factory, usually about 1600, if that gives you an idea of what it will be like. I think it would tend to get hot in stop and go and be rough on the brakes idling that high. 230 -250 lbs. open at .5" lift is not that much spring pressure, it's about what the springs in most factory performance engines (and not just Mopars) would have at that lift or even less. I plan on just using 340 springs in our slant and that is about what open pressure it will have. Higher lift cams with stiffer springs don't last as long as low lift ones with weak springs, but street engines don't normally lose the cam from idling. I have never had to idle an engine that fast even with a really hot street cam. About 1,100 at the most. This idea about the high idle to save the cam might have something to do with the additive packages in oil not being the same as they used to be. As far as I know every new car has roller lifters or a overhead cam and they do not need the extreme pressure additives that used to be in oil. I think they removed them for less deposits and emissions. A bunch has been written about early cam failures in the past 5 years or so, I have not kept up with most of it. A search should turn up some info on the web. I have been using about a 1/4 bottle of GM eos in my buick at every oil change to hopefully offset this and have had no problems. That car has even more spring pressure at a lower lift. Using too much eos, like a whole bottle, would lead to chamber deposits. Our slant is stock at this point and I am not too concerned about the cam, it will surely be fine until I go thru the whole engine. Running too much cam for the converter and gears can make the car a real pig, that may be the hard thing to live with. |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:45 pm ] |
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Diesel Oil still has the additives you need for the cam. |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:20 pm ] |
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What is stall? |
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| Author: | emsvitil [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:11 pm ] |
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Quote: What is stall?
http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_understandstallspeed.cfm |
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| Author: | Bren67Cuda904 [ Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Very good info. Thanks What would the max idle RPM be to avoid Park-Drive gear slamming with my stock 2000 stall converter. |
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