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Leaning towards turbo EFI
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Author:  CARS [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Leaning towards turbo EFI
This EFI section is a great addition. I have read the /6 EFI article written years ago using the GM 3.8L batch fire system and was wondering if this is still the way to go for my EFI conversion? Or are you guys leaning towards systems like Megasquirt?
I don't mind fiddling around with the tuning to a certain degree but from what I read on the megasquirt faqs page it may be more than I want to tackle.
And while I have your attention, who here has had great success with their turbo/efi /6's? Any common problems that those older articles don't mention or any new tricks?
Thanks in advance.
Author:  Pierre [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
My vote is for the megasquirt. I tried the GM route and didn't like it - tuning for that requires burning chips which can be a hassle. They do have gadgets that emulate ROM chips and you can tune live, but thats starting to drive the price up and complicates things.

You have to be willing to tackle tuning head on full bore. Wideband o2 sensors make this easier, and is deffinately a good idea on turbo setups.
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
\
To be honest any system you run is going to take you down the road of learning more than you wish. The problem with retrofiting a nother brands EFI system is they almost always come out not being just right. This puts you in the possition of having to burn chips or other ways of getting it work for you. This ussally makes it more difficult than learning to work with a system that has a lot of options & tunning but is able to do so once you get the hang of it. Atleast then you will be able to compensate for any tunning you need at any RPM or load and this will pay off in the long run even though it may seem a bit overwellming at the time.

The Megasquirt system is a very good system. There is even companies that will sell it to you already built to work with your setup. This could be with a ford EDIS ignition or maybe a HEI converted dizzy that you convert for your slant. There is also other cheap systems that work good for others such as this company http://www.perfectpower.com/


But in the end you will be way better off if you go the extra mile to get a system with the ability to handle your needs instead of trying to patch a system in that will just get close. And to tell you thruth it will probably be cheaper in the long run because after you try to make something work and keep spending to make it fit your needs you will end up spending more than if you just bit the bullet to begine with.

Now if you are capable of finding these used sytems at no cost and the time it take to work threw them then that may be a differnt story.


There are systems such as the Redline/Webber EFI systems that are not to much in price that you could buy and probably get enough backing from the companies that sell and use them to where the tunning could be easy & maybe even have maps that would work with your combo to where you didnt have to do much tunning at all. But these are not Direct port systems ( more of a TBI system) and want perform as good as if you built a system with a fuel injector per cylinder (unless you buy the three webber setup and this is pricy). They will also not have as good of a cylinder distribution as a Multiport system and could have lean or rich cylinders just like the carb intakes do. If your going to go threw the work and expeince of EFI you should reap all the benifits that it offers so that it is worth your trouble and gains the performance & fuel milage that you should get. If not you might as well just spent the time and money to set a carb & dizzy up to the extremes and live with what you get.


Jess
Author:  CARS [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the replies.
I see I am going to have to spend a bit of time and money (the time thing doesn't bug me) to make this happen. The GM 3.8 system looked simple and inexpensive and I guess that is what sparked my interest.
If you guys don't mind me asking, aprox. how much time and $$$ do you think you have into your conversion (both turbo/non-turbo chime in)?
Are there any books that I should read or do the forums and EFI faq pages tell most of the story?
I appreciate the help. If anyone has any autobody questions shoot me a email and i'll return the favor.
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've spent around $1,800 on my Megasquirt system for a turbo slant six. That's port injected (the manifold and mods set me back around $650), with a wideband oxygen sensor system ($200) and about $200 worth of AN hose and pipe fittings that you wouldn't need if you aren't trying to keep it NHRA legal.

I'm using a Lean Burn distributor, which behaves closely enough to a GM HEI distributor that I was able to just wire it up to a 7 pin HEI module and make it work. If you aren't using computerized timing control, things are even simpler - you can trigger it off the negative terminal of the coil.

Although it is possible to run Megasquirt with some MAFs, most Squirters aren't using them.
Author:  SPHERT! [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  I am looking as well, here is my two cents!
I have looked into several possibilities. MegaSquirt, F.A.S.T. Accell DFI GM retrofits, Holley Projection. They all have good possibility, but I need something that can be tuned for serious Turbo Boost (28 pounds!) and control the Transmission as well because I plan to use a 4L60E which has a Lock-up Torque Convertor. I want ALL the sensors and that only comes from Big Stuff 3. The same man (John Meaney) who started marketing boxes, first for Accell and then for F.A.S.T, is now marketing the latest version for himself and has the only Total management System that does not have to piggy back an original equipment control box. It is a stand alone ECM and has provisions to control Turbo Boost, Fuel Pressure and the Electronic Transmission/ Lock-up Torqer as well. The computer interface is DOS. It uses an oxygen sensor to control fuel delivery and a engine tach signal and speed sensor as well. I have concerns about the environment and while it is great that I don't have to worry about it, because my car is a 1964. I still feel it is important to "do no harm." By controlling the engine, fuel injection and transmission all at once. The potential to get max Horse power and Max Fuel Economy is very attractive! IF I decide to for go the fancy tranny and use a Gear vendors instead. I plan to use the MegaSquirt III system with Batch Fire instead. The BigStuff Three unit is fully sequential, tunable and rated to 500 HP before it starts to cost more...allot more!!! go to.... www.bigstuff3.com ...for more info!
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I am looking as well, here is my two cents!
Quote:
The BigStuff Three unit is fully sequential, tunable and rated to 500 HP before it starts to cost more...allot more!!! go to.... www.bigstuff3.com ...for more info!

I do not understand what would make you even think such a thing, even the lowest available system from BS3 is capable of handling any amount of HP right out of the box. And the one with trans control has no problem what so ever in doing so wail running the engine at the same time. The only problem I have ever seen in the BS3 is the Dmap correction is to slow to allow corrections fast enough for a quick shifted stright shift car. This is no problem anyway because all you do is not use it (Dmap correction) and the fueling is correct without it. There is only one other system that even compairs to the fueling control of BS3 and that is MOTEC which cost $6000.00 to $10,000.00 to purchace and is a better system. No other system can control big fuel injectors as good as BS3
( except the MOTEC).


You can not go wrong buying BS3, Fast FX or Megasquirt. Within a few months MS I & II will have trans controll plus Sequential Injection with COP & Can bus ( Race pack/dash comunications) capabilities.


Jess
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a couple of notes....

The 4l60E trans behind a slant is a waste of HP, time and money. I have run them in my 250HP SBC wagon for years and the costs and breakage are a serious detriment. For my money a well built 904 is a far better investment.

If you feel the need for an OD your money would be better spent on a 5 speed.
Quote:
It uses an oxygen sensor to control fuel delivery and a engine tach signal and speed sensor as well.
My 1989 GM 747 ECM can do that!

You should talk to Sam Powell about Accel DFI.

Talk to Dart 270 about Holley Projection....you might as well use a GM ECM
Author:  CARS [ Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 
What about the Racetech system? www.sdsefi.com

It looks simple and the harness is made up for your vehicle and sensors.

I found this info from a link on project Big Red ( http://www.projectplato.com/cars/efi.html )
Author:  CARS [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Bump

The Racetech looks too simple to not consider. That is of course someone has a reason that it wont work :lol: .

Yes, I know that I wont be able to use E85 fuel like I was chatting about in another post.
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
You could still run E85, but you would probably have to tune for it and run it all the time instead of being able to switch from one fuel to another.


Jess
Author:  Sam Powell [ Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:55 am ]
Post subject: 
We are glad to see your interest here, and your participation in this forum. The more the merrier. If I were doing it over,I would look long and hard at the race tech(simple digital systems) system. The real key to success here is to have GOOD docmentation of every circuit in the system, not just black boxes connected by harnesses, and GOOD support through either factory or web forums. The Accel is a very good system, but the documentation is a joke. The Mega Squirt is a good system. It is not as flexible, or as complete as the ACcel system, but the documentation and support are absolutely top notch. There is more help then you could ever ask for. The race tech claims the same thing, but I would investigate it further to be sure. Their web site looks very promising. BE prepared to take your time, and complete each task carefully, and you should be OK. I was unfamiliar with the jargon and acronyms at first, but you eventually get this worked out. Sometimes things that are fundamentally computer skills not addressed directly by the EFI company can be stumbling blocks, so be sure you have computer support if you are not a computer kind of guy,(which I was only marginally).

I am still looking for a good , comprehensive, step by step tuning guide. I am hoping we can develope some standard practices here on this forum. The problem is the technology advances faster than the time it takes to publish a book. The developements come along faster than the publishers can get their literature on book shelves. Consequently, by the time ACcel's Gen VI book got to market, the Gen VII was out. This fact discourages published texts. So, we are moving towards internet support here for sure.
Sam
Author:  Al T [ Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Racetech
Racetech's system is a complex full functioning system which is easy to work with due to a smart design.
Author:  CARS [ Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the reply Al, Since it was your project that peaked my interest in this system in the first place.

Could you expand abit more? What problems did you encounter along the way? Is their support as good as it sounds?

Thanks,
Chris
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Racetech certainly looks workable. It does have one rather tricky looking step, though - it's meant to work with a specific Hall effect trigger to have spark control, not the VR type trigger used in Mopar distributors. Their website recommends modifying the engine for a crank trigger, although I suspect you could put some circuitry inline with a Lean Burn distributor to fool the ECU into thinking it's getting a Hall effect signal. It seems they designed it for just one set of sensors that you could modify any engine to use, rather than trying to make it work with a huge variety of sensors. It doesn't have the flexibility of some other systems, but it's straightforward and effective. (And, no matter whose system you use, a turbo EFI slant six requires a lot of custom fabrication anyway.)
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