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Modern Wheels
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21005		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  sethmcneil [ Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Modern Wheels
:idea:

Most Of Our Cars Run Ma Mopar's 5 on 4" Bolt Pattern Right?... I Was Cruising Craig's List The Other Day For Some Fresh Rollers And Found That A Lot Of The Newer Imports Sport A 5 on 100mm Pattern... The Difference Between The Two Is Slight: (Without Getting Real Precise ) Only 1.5mm!


Is This Still Too Much Play?

Still Need To Do Some Research On The Hole In The Center Of The Newer Wheels ( Is There A Technical Name? ) .....

Thinking Back, I Noticed Some Tall Lexus Alloys On A B-Body Last Spring, Never Was Able To Get Too Much Info From The Owner Though...
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Front-wheel-drive wheels do not fit or work correctly or safely on rear-drive cars, and 100mm is not close enough to 4" to be a safe substitute.

Sorry, I know they're temptingly common, but this won't work.

Also, please don't post the same question in more than one forum, it's rude. :-(

Thanks. :-)
Author:  Lars [ Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Not safe, and not a good idea. You can however buy wheels from Coys, ( www.coyswheel.com ) they will make you some 17" wheels with the small bolt pattern, and they aren't too terribly expensive.
Author:  ROADRUNNER7169 [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:25 am ]
Post subject: 
also you can get wheel adapters and go with the 5 on 4 1/2" pattern (infinite wheel options)
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Wheel adaptors are not safe.
Author:  65 dartman [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Front-wheel-drive wheels do not fit or work correctly or safely on rear-drive cars, and 100mm is not close enough to 4" to be a safe substitute.
I was told today that SBP wheels will work and fit just fine on FWD cars. I'd think the offset would be all wrong.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Front-wheel-drive wheels do not fit or work correctly or safely on rear-drive cars, and 100mm is not close enough to 4" to be a safe substitute.
I was told today that SBP wheels will work and fit just fine on FWD cars.
That's not correct. This swap doesn't work properly/safely in either direction.
Author:  emsvitil [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like the wheels are close, but here's how to think about it.....

4" = 101.6mm

100mm = 3.937" or about 3 15/16"


So the differences in the bolt circles are 1.6mm or 1/16".

At each stud it would be half that or .8mm or 1/32"


The stud is 7/16" diameter (11mm)....


How much force is required to bend a steel rod of the above diameter .8mm in 1/4"- 1/2" (7-13mm) [that's about how far the nut is away from the drum or disk mating surface depending on wheel type] ??????? Somethings gonna break........
Author:  argentina-slantsixer [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Sounds like the wheels are close, but here's how to think about it.....

4" = 101.6mm

100mm = 3.937" or about 3 15/16"


So the differences in the bolt circles are 1.6mm or 1/16".

At each stud it would be half that or .8mm or 1/32"


The stud is 7/16" diameter (11mm)....


How much force is required to bend a steel rod of the above diameter .8mm in 1/4"- 1/2" (7-13mm) [that's about how far the nut is away from the drum or disk mating surface depending on wheel type] ??????? Somethings gonna break........
this horse has repeatedly been beaten to death.

I have compared SBC wheels and euro 5 on 100 wheels and here are my cold hearted facts:

A) most modern wheel makers (decent ones, at least) manufacture their stuff to much, much more close tolerances than OEM factory specs from the '60's and '70's due to the increase in constant cruise speeds the cars can maintain nowadays

B) any 15+ YO SBC wheel would have enough fatigue to bring it out of tolerances by about the same amount of the numbers discussed here using 5 on 100 wheels

C) most wheel makers offers 5 on 100 with any backspacing you may think of, rendering them useable for any kind of car (FWD - RWD)

D) any 15+ YO bolt can come loose, thread stripped and be extremely prone to break if it has been abused

E) replacing your SBC and old lug nuts and studs with new hi quality 5 on 100 and matching good quality and new attaching hardware would yield significant balance/control/true centering improvement. This I compared on lathes, on cars, using new computer machines and old school dial and gauge machines

So, to my point of view, stating that a 5 on 100 is plain incorrect has more to do with a philosophical thing, like drivin in or out a 1/2" hex nut with a 13 mm wrench. I don't do that, in fact, I mostly HATE metric tools and I only have them to service all the machinery and cars that I work on that has metric stuff. Truth been told, a good set of 5 on 100 would improve your handling over great looking but nasy centering issues cragar ss wheels. I love that wheels but unilugs are just as unacceptable as adaptors or "incorrect" 5 on 100 wheels used on SBC cars.

EDIT:

found more data on some things that adds to ed's excellent analysis:

if you engage the threads on a 7/16 nut, the play between the stud/nut assy is 1/64 WHEN NEWLY CUT WITH PRECISION MACHINERY. This is standard play for that kind of pitch, threads and materials on SAE and Withworth is even greater.
Author:  440_Magnum [ Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Not safe, and not a good idea.
And uglier than sin, too. :P
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