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| Bad Engine Rebuild or Common Issues? https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23282 |
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| Author: | daveca5150 [ Mon May 21, 2007 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bad Engine Rebuild or Common Issues? |
This is a great forum and I've really learned a lot. I just had my slant six rebuilt by Waterhouse Motors in Tacoma Washington. I told them that I wanted to keep my original block and head. They originally quoted me at $1230 for the long block rebuild with stock parts. They also talked me into a balnancing service that added 160. Then they charge me 170 for hardened valve seats. They also rebuilt my harmonic balancer for 90 and a bunch of other little charges that were not discussed prior to the rebuild. Anyways, the total bill ended up at around 1900! I paid it saying to myself, it was worth it to get a quality engine rebuild. Then I tried to install it. They gave me a different block back This one has two welds on the sides of the block. They also gave me a harmonic balancer that was .003" smaller in diameter than the end of the crankshaft. Lastly, the put new exhaust manifold studs that were .25" shorter than the stock ones making them too short to get a nut and washer on. Not only that, but the new studs are the wrong thread pitch! Finally, the person doing the "engine balancing" drilled weight out of one elbow of the crank, and welded weight to another. Well the weld was so nasty that there were pencil lead size chunks of metal loose and falling off into the cylinders. At this point, I've lost all confidence in this place to do a quality rebuild, but since this is my first time getting this done, maybe I'm being too picky. My thoughts are, if they can't do simple things like putting the right studs in, or giving me the correct harmonic balancer, how could they have possibly done the precise honing and boring necessary for a quality rebuild. I'm going to call them tomorrow, but do you think I should be upset, or is this pretty normal? Thanks |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Mon May 21, 2007 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Did they assemble it or are you doing it? The damper will be a smaller diameter than the crank snout. It is a press fit, and most Slants have no bolt holding the damper on from the factory. It sounds like a run of the mill engine shop job to me. Nothing spectacular, but nothing fatal. I am in the middle of a mess right now with 2 engines that I had machine work done at the "best Mopar shop" in the area. Yours is relatively mild compared to what I am dealing with. 
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| Author: | Pierre [ Mon May 21, 2007 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Balancing the assembly and rebuilding the damper is a good idea, that part of it was fair. Studs that are too short would of killed the deal for me then and there. Chunks of metal falling off the crank isn't fatal?!? Ugh, hate sloppy work. If this was a friend that did it for you on the side thats one thing, but something you paid for? I wouldn't stand for it. Are you sure thats not your same block, that was cracked to begin with, and welded for repair? If it indeed is a completely different block, and they did not notify you that you were getting a different one, then that shop has some serious issues. I believe thats even a legal thing they have to do because you specifically requested use same parts. Keep us posted. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue May 22, 2007 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm with Pierre: I would not sit still for this what you're talking about. It's unacceptably sloppy work and, if they didn't give you your block back, it's not the work that you contracted for. |
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| Author: | 440_Magnum [ Tue May 22, 2007 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The two issues that I consider completely unacceptable are: 1) the poor-quality weld on the balance job 2) using a different block without telling you The short studs are an error that they should fix, but since they don't have the exhaust manifold (presumably) I can kinda-sorta overlook them not realizing they were too short. But they should get you the correct set NOW. The balancer is about right- it needs to be a press-fit on the crank. Sadly, this kind of shoddy work is all too common these days, but it doesn't mean you have to roll over and take it. Don't go down there breathing fire and ready to kick their tails right off the bat- be calm and accomodating and ask them to please make the issues right. For example- if they found some issue with your original block that made it un-useable, then have them explain why and show you. Tell them that the quality of the weld risks wrecking the whole engine and that you want to reduce the risk of having to claim a warranty on them..... Then kick their tails if they don't work with you. |
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| Author: | Doc [ Tue May 22, 2007 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sounds like a low dollar "production shop" rebuild job to me. I agree with 440, give them a chance to "make things right". You are on the right path, inspect everything carefully, ask questions and make a list of "concerns and issues" that the shop needs to correct. Give them the list and discuss it with them. (document who and when you spoke to the shop) If they address all your concerns then your are done. If they do not deal with the problems, you now have good basis for legal action. DD |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Tue May 22, 2007 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
As a reference I recently had my SL6 long block rebuilt with the same options and more at 410 Automotive in Buckley, WA. I had none of the problems and poor workmanship you describe. So there are some descent builders out there...they were very maticulous and open to my requests. I would allow them to make things right, if not, I am with Doc. Good luck and let us know how it goes. |
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| Author: | 65 dartman [ Wed May 23, 2007 3:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Although not a slant, I just had all the machine work done on a V8 (Formula S 273) at a local NAPA machine shop. Included hardened seats, guides, new springs, a clean-up cut, and 3 angle valve job for the heads. Crank turned, block cooked, new brass freeze plugs, bores remained standard, cam bearings installed, cylinders honed, rods reconditioned, etc with everything ready to assemble. Price included all the main and rod bearings and new rings (all name brand). I figure I'll have maybe $13 - 1400 in it after I buy a cam and lifters. And of course everything was done with my concurrence and naturally got my original block, heads, pistons, rods etc back. |
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| Author: | argentina-slantsixer [ Wed May 23, 2007 3:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't know if you have the proper instrument, but our postal service has a legal document that can be mailed in as the first step in preparation for legal actions. Sometimes, $#!+ places like this shop you're talking about doesn't need to actually see a lawyer if properly "scared". Now, if you were in Argentina, you couldn't use your car if they give you a wrong block. Blocks have numbers on them that has to match with VIN's As a matter of fact our vehicle registration has 2 codes, one for the body and other for the engine. If your numbers on title ain't match the real stuff your car wouldn't be legal, simple as that, you'll be forbid from using the car and/or risking the vehicle being held by the law. (And possibly destroyed) Bad welding, poor craftmanship, careless atenttion to simple stuff like the lenght of some studs... that ain't no match for a 1900 bux rebuild job. That's a crap "reman" work. .003" would be about right tolerance for press fitting. (maybe on the ultratight side) but for the price they charged you for "remanufacturing" your harmonic balancer, I believe you can get a new stock one. I'd fight this. |
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| Author: | Wizard [ Wed May 23, 2007 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | While it is not slant... give my two cents here... |
I pulled off head off the mopar 4 cyl 2.5L for spare part for my 2.2. Found: Bent camshaft and #3 exhaust lobe extremely galled. The head is painted with light grey paint to make head "look new"!? "OK" stampings all over one end. And a thermal glued warranty washer on the core plug. 7 mushy lash adjusters out of 8, worn rocker tips. Valve guides worn also.  Cheers, Wizard |
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| Author: | daveca5150 [ Thu May 24, 2007 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks for the advice and feedback. I will talk with the warranty department tomorrow and let you know how it goes. Are you sure about the harmonice balancer being OK at 3-5 thousanths too small? I tried putting it on and it just wouldn't go so I used a puller to take it back off. I had put quite a shoulder onto the inside of the balncer pulley. |
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| Author: | daveca5150 [ Sun May 27, 2007 2:04 pm ] |
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Well, the guys at Waterhouse told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill, so I guess I'm out of luck for getting any help from them. On the bright side, I have a bit of a warranty even though I'm installing it myself. I went out and bought the correct studs and installed the manifold yesterday. I also bought a longer 3/4 16 bolt and pressed the harmonic balancer on. I guess they are supposed to be that tight. One step closer! |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sun May 27, 2007 2:06 pm ] |
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Quote: Well, the guys at Waterhouse told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill, so I guess I'm out of luck
Uhh...no, not unless you routinely give up this easily. YOUR engine YOUR money therefore YOUR say-so as to what's a mountain and what's a molehill. You need to hold these people to account and not just give up 'cause they tell you to quit whining. |
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| Author: | Pierre [ Sun May 27, 2007 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Metal falling off crank is molehill? Wow, if thats what they think I don't want to know what they consider to be a mountain. If it was just the studs, thats not a big deal just takes time to fix no big cost. But metal falling off crank has me really concerned about the longevity of your engine. |
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| Author: | Sam Powell [ Sun May 27, 2007 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Being pissed off is not good for your health. You don;t need to get mad to get action. You can stay calm, and cool, and still get action out of them if it is needed. I have threatened legal action on shops before, but I was not angry. It still gets results, and you feel better about life in general. The balancing job sounds typical except for the sloppy weld part. Does it really look like it will fail in some way? ARe they willing to stand behind their work? If there is a guarantee, then relax, and be sure you have it in writing. What year is your car, and how many feeze plugs are in the block you currently have in your possession? Blocks before, I think 67 had three freeze plugs. Blocks after that had 5. maybe your old block was not rebuildable. But they should have talked to you about it if it is different. Keep us informed, and try to stay cool. Sam |
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