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Manifolds, adapters and the like - who will be interested
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Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Manifolds, adapters and the like - who will be interested
Hey Guys

I am busy now on making up an adaptor using a Phenolic resin to make a prototype for the following problems

Fuel distribution a Holley 4 BBL and isolating the carb from heat - and a spacer wont hurt

SO

The current phenolic is filled up with a high temp, petrol resistant filler

The holes will be predrilled at an angle to twist the flow by 90 degrees - in other words have the primary outlets from the spacer furthest furthest the engine so instead of turning the carb 90 degrees and spending a heap of time and money on locar kick down cables, and fuel bowls being incorrectly orientated - this is my idea
, but what the heck I have the filler and the spacer and the tools - experimenting wont hurt

It all started because the slant I have have a Chrysler south Africa developed for an a meant AFB

So I had to use a adapter to get my 4150 to fit - but the carb get quite hot so I wanted to isolate it...and it got me thinking


What if I can turn the airflow so I have a primary and secondary feeding each half of the engine......

And with this what if I can install a plenum divider - turning the manifold into a dual plane ... more HP and torque low down


What do you think - it will bolt straight on small to big bolt pattern transdapt, or other adapter, it will isolate the carb from heat, and improve
Distribution

Add a divider with a 1/4 inch gap divider ala V8

Oh yes have a look at the manifolds I am in the process of replicating

The new patterns are being machined - CNC is an expensive experience, but worth it so money is the limiting factor

After machining they are off to the flowbench to sort out problems - these manifold were developped by Chrysler South Africa for The pollice as an interceptor package - with a headers, higher CR and wilder cam ported head

Since the 2 is the only ones in existence - that i know off, and since the 4 BBL has not ever been machined, I figured out a process to recreate them, without stuffing them up, plus the advantage to improve issues with distribution

Just Thought you would like to know what the CRAZY :shock: :shock: :shock: south african slant sixer is up to

Oh yes local performance - read v8 shops report an increase in / stuff being imported this way


http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=7 ... =664207590
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
H'mmm. I think I understand what you're wanting to do ("tunnel" through the adaptor anglewise x4 rather than rotate the carb 90°) but I'm not sure I like it. If restriction through the tunnels is to be avoided, it seems to me the adaptor would have to be very thick. Several inches at least. Bonnet/hood clearance to the carb will become problematic (and reintroduce the linkage/kickdown issue you're trying to solve).

As for a Lokar cable, I cannot see ever wanting to mess with it, given that there's an apparently much better solution available using factory parts.

So, in a nutshell, my preliminary vote looks like this:

Filled phenolic material: YES
Plenum divider: YES
Tunnel quasi-rotate: NO
Just rotate whole carb instead: YES
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Spoil sport ....... :D

Let a guy have some fun will you :shock:

Any ways due to exchage rates, plus transport plus 30% import duty on new stuff this side

217.1 US Dollar(s) = 1457.04 South African Rand(s) If I am lucky

So I will rather experiment and see where it takes me

:D

But I do follow What you are saying, between the original converter, and the phenolic resin isolator I look at about 3 inches - for my own application and curiosity I will try. The adapter and isolator has varying bore sizes witch I would like to standardize, as well as blend properly into the manifold - at this stage the combo has to many ill fitting bits - including the difference between the carb and the adapter/isolater bores

Like the Jewish Rabi said to the local protestants during a national day of prayer for rain - You can try, but the wind waai (blows) west...
:D

No feedback on the manifolds - I wonder what the guys will do when I show them the patterns -- The local lot is quite exited, and the efi/turbo set likes the 4 bbl one
Author:  Joshie225 [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I like the 2x2 manifold. Is that a 1 foot rule (~30.5 cm) in the picture? The carb pads look like they are set up for a Weber DGV type. Is this correct?

Turning the Holley sideways isn't that bad. I used to road race my '66 Dart with a 390 Holley mounted sideways on a Clifford intake and had no issues. On street tires you won't have any problems unless the float level is set incorrectly.

I like the way the runners are done on the 4 bbl manifold. Dividing the manifold in 1/2 front-to back does help low speed carburetor function significantly with long overlap cams.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Let a guy have some fun will you :shock:
Oh, surely! It's just some of my best ideas for how to do things come from looking at existing problems. I'm just thinking out loud, is all.
Quote:
Like the Jewish Rabi said to the local protestants during a national day of prayer for rain - You can try, but the wind waai (blows) west...
Mmmmm...I'm trying, but I don't get it. Splain me, Lucy! :lol: (I can say I've never heard of any kind of rabbi other than the Jewish kind...:mrgreen: )
Quote:
No feedback on the manifolds
You already know my enthusiastic reaction, but for the benefit of those who haven't sat in on our extended discussion: I think that 3+3 four barrel intake is either going to work great or be a total pig. Probably not in between, and I cannot guess which it'll be. And that's gotta be one of the slickest twin-carb intakes I've seen for the slant-6!
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh yes on lokar

The 904 stainless steel kick down cable conversion kit is

127 US Dollar(s) = 852.348 South African Rand(s) from summit with all the import taxes and transport

A lot cheaper - and the local chaps actually stock them.

But you know me - hard headed to the end :roll:
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
like the 2x2 manifold. Is that a 1 foot rule (~30.5 cm) in the picture? The carb pads look like they are set up for a Weber DGV type. Is this correct?
Yes actually a set of 36DCD7's was used originally - they had staged opening throttles and is very tuneable - you can even change the main chokes, and yes it is a 30 cm rule

Quote:
I like the way the runners are done on the 4 bbl manifold. Dividing the manifold in 1/2 front-to back does help low speed carburettor function significantly with long overlap cams.
I agree this manifold looks as if it never went past prototype stage - when I found it it was not even machined - still had casting flashes on the inside

Changes to the design includes giving it a slightly larger plenum area so that the big pattern carbs - 4150 4160 can bolt straight onto the mounting plate with out converters

Then things like a removable plenum divider( Dan), 2 bbl mounting plate with the throttle axis parallel to the engine (also Dan), maybe water heated plenum etc is under consideration - we will have to hang tight till the patterns come back from the flow bench

What I have done so far is have these to manifolds cast semi solid - the foundry created cores for the first part of the runners and the basic plenum - the shapes are to complex

2 of each has been cast - will send photos of the lot - then the fun part - they get cut along the original casting flash, but off centre so that you end up with two halves from two manifolds with the correct final thickness.

Where we are are now is waiting for CNC time before Christmas - they are down in Johannesburg, and with work and all I dont get time to give enough attention

The CNC chappy will also drill and tap them so that the halves can be bolted together for flow testing etc, afterwards I split them again - and have final patterns created

Easy...............ish not recommended unless you have access to the required foundry, patternmakers and machine shop

And then I hope some slanters will be interested


:shock: :shock:
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Mmmmm...I'm trying, but I don't get it. Splain me, Lucy! Laughing (I can say I've never heard of any kind of rabbi other than the Jewish kind...Mr. Green )
OK over here in the Karoo it does not rain if the westerleys are blowing - and as for the rest......wise ass :D
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh yes Guys PLEASE

Give comments and suggestions - the more sensible input the better
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
OK ok I know I am posting to my own toppic BUT

The guys who are doing my headers(US)/extractors(AUS)/Branches(RSA)

have managed to route the pipes away and around my AC installation

We had to drop the compressor a bit to create more space no biggie

Nice thing about the RHD cars with a slant we have LOADS of space....:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
.............and now I gonna get flamed ...............mercy :shock:
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like I missed a very interesting discussion. There seems to be a new smallblock Chevy manifold out every month, but I haven't seen a new casting for a slant six intake manifold in a while.

The four barrel manifold with the two groups of 3 runners looks like it would make a really good EFI intake if it had provisions for a fuel rail and injector bungs cast into it. It has a larger plenum volume than your typical carbed intake, and nearly equal length runners, all good things on an injected manifold. And those two bosses would be good for mounting fuel rail hardware.
Author:  dakight [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread... I don't know a lot about this subject but looking at the 4-bbl manifold the layout just bugs me. It looks to me that the #3 and #4 runners have a very sharp bend in the flow path. The rest look OK. I realize that I can't see what it looks like inside but from the picture view i'm skeptical that it would work well in high flow demand situations.
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
t sounds like I missed a very interesting discussion. There seems to be a new smallblock Chevy manifold out every month, but I haven't seen a new casting for a slant six intake manifold in a while.

The four barrel manifold with the two groups of 3 runners looks like it would make a really good EFI intake if it had provisions for a fuel rail and injector bungs cast into it. It has a larger plenum volume than your typical carbed intake, and nearly equal length runners, all good things on an injected manifold. And those two bosses would be good for mounting fuel rail hardware.
Hi Mat,

I have been quietly communicating with Dan - and didn't want to say much before I was certain that I could duplicate these manifolds

I do agree - that large plenum mounting pad ...... could it be that they had a supercharger in mind of some sort - it just dawned upon me

I am taking notes this side - and provisioning for injectors is a good idea

Specially with emission regs getting tighter - even over here - efi might in the end be the only way to go to keep your slant on the road
Author:  68barracuda [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread... I don't know a lot about this subject but looking at the 4-bbl manifold the layout just bugs me. It looks to me that the #3 and #4 runners have a very sharp bend in the flow path. The rest look OK. I realize that I can't see what it looks like inside but from the picture view i'm skeptical that it would work well in high flow demand situations.
Hi

The outside look is deceptive , but yes it does look as if 3 and 4 will be starved - As Mat remarked for a dry efi manifold it could be ideal.

The plenum is simply huge and the areas - lets call it sub plenum's - feeding the runners are well designed - does not look so from the outside.

It looks as if though Chrysler tried to make a single carb equal runner manifold of some sort.

But the whole lot is going past a flow bench for some testing to see what is what - and how it can be improved!
Author:  Wizard [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree it's deceptive but the design of intakes you showed in that photos are stunningly awesome ideas.

That made me think about my chrysler 2.2/2.5 4 cylinder custom intakes. :)

Cheers, Wizard
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