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Basic TBI Conversion on totally Stock Engine
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26622		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JackDW [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Basic TBI Conversion on totally Stock Engine
I (actually my wife) has a 72 Duster with a totally stock 225 slant 6. It has the orginial 1 barrel carb and point distributor. I would like to switch over to a basic FI systems. I do not want to have to play with software (or firmware) updates, just want to use something that is very generic. The following system contains the TBI Unit, electronic distributor, electric fuel pump, wiring and a basic ECM. I realize that it will be nowhere near as good as port injection and custom created system especially using the basic factory intake, but I just want something to replace the old tired Carb type system and be more reliable with minimal hassle. Has anyone tried this system on a totally stock vehicle. Thanks for any feedback, both good and bad especially in comparsion to the old Carb system.

Affordable Fuel Injection : Fuel Injection : Throttle Body : Mopar

Included with Complete System
• ECM (production GM unit)
• Custom calibration chip for your specific application
• TBI Unit Includes TPS and IAC control
• Flow Matched Fuel Injectors
• Custom built wiring harness for your vehicle
• HEI EFI Distributor (Full spark and fuel control)
• TBI adapter gasket and hardware
• ECT, MAP & O2 sensor
• External Fuel pump with relay
• Power relay
• Check engine indicator
• Installation instructions
• Tech support
• Many miles of low maintenance fuel injection operation
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Page you're looking at is this one: http://tinyurl.com/2kwvlp

$1420 for that?!! I would not call that cost-effective.
Author:  runvs_826 [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, well I wrote a page called "How to TBI" which I thought would be a cool how to, but apparently it was a waste of my time cause everyone has been asking the same thing.
My entire project cost about $900, which involved cleaning out the original gas tank and making a electirc fuel pump into it and sender unit. Than running 3/8 fuel line. You can get a one barrel intake and modify it to fit a GM tbi unit, or a dodge if you have to stick with it. Get about 4 injectors from the junkyard to make sure you get 2 that work.
As for getting a fuel injection computer that will go right into your car... don't know what to tell you. As far as I know their is no such thing, and even if you take another v6 model it should run like crap.
The megasquirt computer was the most expensive part, I would get one already assembled which I did. It's probably the most "generic" ecm computer their is, I suppose. It wasn't really that difficult to program, the ignition was the most difficult but Matt Cramer already wrote an article that works with the original stuff. The fuel stuff is actually pretty easy, you'll fill out your Constants page. Than the program makes a VE table for you to start out with, you got to play with it to get an idle. Than use Megalogviewer to rough out your map some more. Last, the ego correction will take care of the rest.
Talk to Sam Powell to cross refrence me, also Pierre is a good source. Of course their is an article by me that has a VE map that should just about plug right into your car.
Author:  JackDW [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Slantsixdan and runsv_826 for your response.

Slantsixdan, what I am hoping to get is "plug and play" system. Is there a more cost effective "plug and play" system out there or is it no better then the 37 year old stock carb, points, setup.

runsv_826, I did read your previous reply on how you setup a system but as I advised Slantsixdan I was really just looking for a system that is better then the old stock setup. I have no question that the system you propose would eventually work better then this kit as it would be customized to the specific vehicle but I am would like to know how this kit would compare to the old stock carb system.

I realize that this kit may be a total waste of time and money and I would be no better off (or very little) then staying with the stock system. Maybe just updating the iginition and keeping the rest of the money in my pocket. That is what I am really asking and yes I can be a little slow and thick headed at time.

Thanks again for your response.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
what I am hoping to get is "plug and play" system.
Unfortunately, this is just not going to be a realistic goal. There are going to be unforeseen difficulties with installation and — yes — tuning. I'm sure you can make this system work, and I'm sure doing so will be less work than other ways of installing fuel injection, but make no mistake, there is just no such a thing as a "drop it in, hop in, turn the key, drive off all smiles" fuel injection system for the slant-6.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
That might be a decent way to go. I could not tell what was included exactly, as the following page said "all of the above plus" and proceeded to list things that seemed to be on the first page. So, I am unsure of how complete the kit is. A complete kit can be appealing because the parts are picked that yare likely tol work together.

The main thing is to look at the instructions and see if you can understand them. Then look at tuning instructions and see if they look understandable. I don;t think the price is too high, if the product is good. If it is using a GM OEM ECU, it probably has pretty sophisticated logic built into it's engine management strategy.

See if you can get references from other in line 6 purchasers who have installed this system. I would not proceed without this. ARe any dealers installing it. Ask for their names, and talk to them.

Sam
Author:  runvs_826 [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Personally I would just get a good carb and ignition system for the money your going to spend. I think many racers can argue the point that a well tuned carb will start and run as good as efi, well almost as good depending on who you talk to. So there is something to think about, I mean tuning is tuning, you can spend it on carb or efi. However, the carbs have proven to be accomplished by more people than EFI. Something you could do is meet half way by getting a good ignition, and maybe an O2 sensor like the Innovate system to help tune the carb. Just some ideas, I know EFI sounds cool, but for me it's been more of a cool project / luxury. If you really want a quicker donw rig their are other ways. Just hope you get a good running rig, and from the sounds of it the GM computer might not be satifying. Good luck!
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Runvs, I was quite impressed by your conversion. I've decided to add a link to it on my blog. Would you be interested in having it hosted on DIYAutotune's homepage, too? I'm pretty sure I can talk the boss into letting me put a copy up there.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Hard to find PROM...
Quote:
As for getting a fuel injection computer that will go right into your car... don't know what to tell you. As far as I know their is no such thing, and even if you take another v6 model it should run like crap.
A buddy of mine who has worked for both GM and Ford has seen a workable bolt on system (will take a little tuning, and some engineering)...
Somewhere in the mid-80's GM started swapping out their feedback carb units on 4 and 6 cylinder models, instead of replacing with a crummy feedback carb they replaced with a package that was TBI, PROM, and wiring harness to splice into the existing wiring... The unit is very basic, runs on an O2 sensor, runs a wire to the ignition switch for power and runs a 1 or 2 barrel TBI ... One of these was modified to a '73 Duster in town sometime in the early 90's, but the Chemeketa Comm. College teacher that did it, is now gone and retired (but some of his students do remember the project). The only big problem I see, is getting lucky enough to find one of the dealer added 'stand alone' systems in a 1981-1985 GM product (most of these, like old cars in junkyards just get sent right into the crusher...)...

Barring that, you'll be in for putting something together and dialing it in...
(of course a 20 year old PROM is also a crap shoot...)

good luck,

-D.Idiot
Author:  GunPilot [ Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
The advantage of the Megasquirt (MS) is that it is programmable by the user. You don't have to have chips programmed for it by someone who has never seen your car at $35 a pop. I can't tell you the number of times I've made a small change to my programming and thought "Glad that was free."

The reality of DIY EFI is that you are going to have to learn about EFI and you are going to have to get your hands dirty. If you want to save money you will need to grab some JY parts and you have to know what you need. You can have it easy, fast, or cheap - pick any two.

The best place to go is over on the msefi.com website. Take a week and read every word on the site. When you are done you have a fighting chance to install an EFI system on an older vehicle and have it work the first time. I know I did. If you don't want to take the time to educate yourself then it is going to get expensive and frustrating.

I've built four MS systems and they have all worked the first time. If I can do it anyone can. I really like and recommend the MS ECU.

I don't get this:
Quote:
Ok, well I wrote a page called "How to TBI" which I thought would be a cool how to, but apparently it was a waste of my time cause everyone has been asking the same thing.
What is the same thing everyone is asking? I think any how-to in DIY EFI is money in the bank for others looking to do the same.

Cost-wise, by scrounging I put EFI on my Ramcharger for about $800. I could have knocked $100 off that by going with a cheaper fuel pump. I used an expensive race pump I didn't need. I added a wideband O2 controller (from DIY Autotune) for another $200 which was money very well spent.

So, if you want the Duster to run like it should, take the time and learn about what you are attempting. Stop looking for the easy bolt-on because it doesn't exist. In reality, you will save yourself time, trouble and money if you take the approach I did which is to get smarter on EFI.
Author:  runvs_826 [ Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
The frustration from the quote came from when everyone was asking the same question, How do I do a cheap EFI? I don't want to program....
The thing is it's not that bad, you can take my maps and settings and be more than halfway done assuming you use the same injectors. I mean that is pretty darn good. For those who say I don't want to program it, your essentially asking for a carb you don't/can't tune. Doesn't make much sense to me either.
Frankly I hope to help as much as I can, but there is no free lunch... so like metioned before it might be more worth it get a carb if you don't want to dive into tuning.
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