Slant Six Forum :: Fuel problems with my Valiant

It started when my fiance was driving my car. She calls me up and tells me it died on her on and she was able to get it off the road and that it wouldn't start back up. She said she got some gas and put some in the tank and with a little coaxing she came back to life and drove home. At the time it was being daily driven pretty much, by either her or myself.

Well, flash forward a week and the same thing happens again. This time it was the day after I filled her up so I knew there was no way she'd run out of gas. She fought with trying to start te car for a little bit then after about 20 minutes it started up again. The rest of the way home she said it would stop getting fuel as she was driving it and would die on her. I put it off for a little bit (working two jobs doesn't afford much free time to fix things).

I finally decided to take her to work a couple weeks later. I was driving home when the exact same thing she had described started happening. It would lose fuel and die while going down the street. Twice I had to pull off and wat for it to start up again and when I had no shoulder I'd fight to get it going before I stopped in the middle of the road. I barely made it to my second job in time because it took me 20 minutes to get 5 minutes down the road.

Unfortunately it's sat since then. Right now I'd very much like to get back into the car and driving it again, at least on weekends or to the local shows once they're in town.

A couple things that have ben done by a previous owner: electric fuel pump installed (I'd personally rather have a stock mechanical pump but I don't know how to check and see if the fuel pump lobe is worn out or still usable) I also noticed they replaced the stock fuel filter (in front of the carb) and the moron installed it backwards (to carb faces away from the carb) but would it make a difference since I drove so long without an issue?

Author:	starion88esir [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Fuel problems with my Valiant
It started when my fiance was driving my car. She calls me up and tells me it died on her on and she was able to get it off the road and that it wouldn't start back up. She said she got some gas and put some in the tank and with a little coaxing she came back to life and drove home. At the time it was being daily driven pretty much, by either her or myself. Well, flash forward a week and the same thing happens again. This time it was the day after I filled her up so I knew there was no way she'd run out of gas. She fought with trying to start te car for a little bit then after about 20 minutes it started up again. The rest of the way home she said it would stop getting fuel as she was driving it and would die on her. I put it off for a little bit (working two jobs doesn't afford much free time to fix things). I finally decided to take her to work a couple weeks later. I was driving home when the exact same thing she had described started happening. It would lose fuel and die while going down the street. Twice I had to pull off and wat for it to start up again and when I had no shoulder I'd fight to get it going before I stopped in the middle of the road. I barely made it to my second job in time because it took me 20 minutes to get 5 minutes down the road. Unfortunately it's sat since then. Right now I'd very much like to get back into the car and driving it again, at least on weekends or to the local shows once they're in town. A couple things that have ben done by a previous owner: electric fuel pump installed (I'd personally rather have a stock mechanical pump but I don't know how to check and see if the fuel pump lobe is worn out or still usable) I also noticed they replaced the stock fuel filter (in front of the carb) and the moron installed it backwards (to carb faces away from the carb) but would it make a difference since I drove so long without an issue? The carb clearly leaks and first thing I plan to do is rebuild the carb. It's a Carter BBD carb but I do not know which one. Any other suggestions of things to check for and/or replace would be greatly appreciated. I hate to see her sitting and I'd like to get her moving before the Rambler gets over here.

Author:	Reed [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel problems with my Valiant
Quote: It started when my fiance was driving my car. She calls me up and tells me it died on her on and she was able to get it off the road and that it wouldn't start back up. She said she got some gas and put some in the tank and with a little coaxing she came back to life and drove home. At the time it was being daily driven pretty much, by either her or myself. Well, flash forward a week and the same thing happens again. This time it was the day after I filled her up so I knew there was no way she'd run out of gas. She fought with trying to start te car for a little bit then after about 20 minutes it started up again. The rest of the way home she said it would stop getting fuel as she was driving it and would die on her. I put it off for a little bit (working two jobs doesn't afford much free time to fix things). I finally decided to take her to work a couple weeks later. I was driving home when the exact same thing she had described started happening. It would lose fuel and die while going down the street. Twice I had to pull off and wat for it to start up again and when I had no shoulder I'd fight to get it going before I stopped in the middle of the road. I barely made it to my second job in time because it took me 20 minutes to get 5 minutes down the road. Unfortunately it's sat since then. Right now I'd very much like to get back into the car and driving it again, at least on weekends or to the local shows once they're in town. A couple things that have ben done by a previous owner: electric fuel pump installed (I'd personally rather have a stock mechanical pump but I don't know how to check and see if the fuel pump lobe is worn out or still usable) I also noticed they replaced the stock fuel filter (in front of the carb) and the moron installed it backwards (to carb faces away from the carb) but would it make a difference since I drove so long without an issue? The reversed fuel filter doesn't really matter, ubt replace it anyway. Quote: The carb clearly leaks and first thing I plan to do is rebuild the carb. It's a Carter BBD carb but I do not know which one. Any other suggestions of things to check for and/or replace would be greatly appreciated. I hate to see her sitting and I'd like to get her moving before the Rambler gets over here. First off, are you sure it is a fuel problem? Does your fuel gauge work? If you have a full tank of gas and it dies, try pulling the air cleaner and pumping the throttle to see if you get a stream of gas down the carb. If you do, then you are getting fuel. If you don't, then you are not getting fuel. However, this sounds to me more like you have a failing ignition coil. I had this happen to me on two cars i have owned in the past. Drove me nuts trying to track down the fuel problem when it turned out to just be the coil. I would replace the electric fuel pump as well. I highly doubt the fuel pump cam has failed. It is a faily light load. When you go to the parts store for the BBD rebuilt kit, ask for one for a 1978 Plymouth Volare station wagon with a slant six. You will get a generic kit with loads of extra gaskets that will match every version of the BBD ever made. Pick the ones you want and you are set. Are you sure the leaking on the BBD isn't work throttle shaft bushings? BBDs are notorious for this. This cause fuel and air leaks on the carb.

Author:	dank10fenny [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:
a car starving for gas will sputter to a death, a coil or spark issue will die instantly...

Author:	starion88esir [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:
A coil is cheap. I will pick one up and replace it for sure, doesn't hurt to have a new one even if it doesn't end up being the problem. Fuel gauge works. Are the 170 and 225 fuel pumps the same? I know when my old roomate tried to get one for his 318 Fury it took 5 trips to get the right one. (I don't know how much of this was parts guy errors vs. different pumps) I'm fairly certain it's not because of worn throttle shaft bushings, well, at least not solely anyway. thank you for the tip on the 78 Volare SW kit, I will be sure to go that route. But if you know of a good source, I can't see a point in not replacing them.

Author:	slantvaliant [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:
Fix the leaks first! Engine fires are not fun at all. Quote: a car starving for gas will sputter to a death, a coil or spark issue will die instantly... Not always. Some electrical/ignition issues can mimic fuel starvation as a component or connection overheats and resistances change. It's more likely with electronic ignition, but possible with points. A clogged fuel filter can starve the engine. If it's fine rust from the tank clogging things up, it can also drop off the filter once the flow stops. Some really fine particles can get through to the carb as well. A semi-transparent fuel filter might help you diagnose this or rule it out. YOu could cut the old one open for a look, too.

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Author:	Reed [ Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: a car starving for gas will sputter to a death, a coil or spark issue will die instantly... Not necessarily. Both my coils still made a weak spark and would work sometimes. But other times it would act like it had a miss, then fail to accelerate, then die. I would crank it for awhile, then it would start and run fine, then it would die again. Also, be sure to check the plastic distributor gear. It can also cause the symptoms you describe (been there done that one too).

Author:	KBB_of_TMC [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:42 am ]
Post subject:
From my experience, 90% of the problems like you describe turn out to be electrical; often a bad coil as aforementioned. If the coil as ~1,000,000,000 sparks on it (typical after 20 years), I'd replace it. I'd start by checking the spark. It's rare, but I have seen a float valve stick so the carb couldn't get fuel, the float sink so it flooded badly, the vent clog up and create a vacuum in the tank, an old fuel line collapse, a small leak in the fuel line let air in, but no gas out, and the snorkle thermal sensor fail and become a big vacuum leak. I've also had lots of fuel problems lately; our area is 100% gasohol and much of it was pretty wet and that caused lots of corrosion that caused many other problems.

Author:	starion88esir [ Mon May 12, 2008 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Fuel problems with my Valiant
Quote: Are you sure the leaking on the BBD isn't work throttle shaft bushings? BBDs are notorious for this. This cause fuel and air leaks on the carb. Do you know where I can get replacement throttle bushings? I've not had any luck finding them online.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Mon May 12, 2008 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:
170 and 225 fuel pumps are the same. You don't go out and buy replacement bushings, you have the throttle body rebushed; see this post. I agree that you might have electrical/ignition problems masquerading as fuel problems, but another thing to check: is the manifold heat control ("heat riser") valve in your exhaust manifold free and working, or is it stuck?

Author:	starion88esir [ Mon May 12, 2008 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:
The coil has been replaced and it didn't prevent the problem. I am about to rebuild the carb, IF I can find the carter bbd carb kit for my single barrel carb. Only one I can sem to find listed online is for the dual barrel carter bbd. The heat riser is also not stuck. It might not fully close, it's hard to tell for sure , but it does move freely. Sounds like having the throttle body rebushed is going to be a major pain in the butt. I guess I need to find some photos of what it should look like because I'm not 100% and I'm a visual learner.

Author:	bigtex [ Mon May 12, 2008 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:
If you live in southern California I just pulled the carb. you need off. I rebuilt it a month or so ago, I know its good. your more then welcome to it if you want.

Author:	DusterIdiot [ Mon May 12, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Er...
Quote: I am about to rebuild the carb, IF I can find the carter bbd carb kit for my single barrel carb BBS= Ball and Ball Single Barrel= 1 barrel BBD= Ball and Ball Dual = 2 barrel So far the best kit is a Standard Hygrade kit (can't remember the number 1636?...) GP sorenson makes one but I can't vouch for the kit's quality (so far have been displeased with the kits used in Holley 2300's and one 2245)... -D.idiot

Author:	volaredon [ Mon May 12, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:
cant find a carb kit for a single barrel BBD, everyone has 2 barrel ones? Thats because if it is a single barrel carb, it is NOT a Carter BBD!

Author:	starion88esir [ Tue May 13, 2008 6:40 am ]
Post subject:
Sorry for my ignorance on the Ball and Ball carbs. Thanks for explaining it. Until now I only recall seeing BBD mentioned. Would it be worth tracking down a BBD to replace the BBS with?

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Author:	SlantSixDan [ Tue May 13, 2008 8:34 am ]
Post subject:
Focus on fixing what you have before taking on a 2bbl carb conversion. A 2bbl carb like a BBD will not bolt onto your intake manifold, hook up to your throttle linkage, fit your air cleaner, etc. What year and model car is this? Do you have the factory service manual for it?