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E85 & The Slant
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Author:  LUCKY13 [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  E85 & The Slant
A local station to me just put in E85 (found it just going down the road). I have never run it in the /6 before so I filled it up with it. I could only get 11 1/2 gals in the tank so its not 100% yet.

They charged me $2.80 compaired to the $3.45 they wanted for premium, which was kinda odd when pumping and seeing some gals add up instead of just the money meter zinging up. I knew it was going to lean my engine out but I figured I could pull the manual choke a bit and get home for some tuning. About three miles down the road she went big time lean so I pulled over and bumped the idle screws out as far as they could & set the choke enough to get me home.

I measured the main jets & PVCR and did the math and just incressed them 30%. Darn near hit it on the nose it was little rich on idle and cruise ( after ajusting mixture screws) and dead on the same A/F I had at WOT before. I figure when I add more E85 the idle & cruise will be about right & I will have to incress the PVCR a bit more. The Accel Pump also needs to be a little bigger but I will do it after I get the tank 100% E85.


It really surprized me to gain quite a bit of power. My engine is about pure stock so with the low compression I didnt expect to be gaining anything, but it did and it was much smoother also. I guess the /6 combustion chamber is so bad it really helped for some reason. The more I drove it the power was really noticable, the torque just pulled like crazy. Then I went back over my timing setting and pulled even more power. I hit it with a lot more advance from my vacuum advance and added 3 degree to the base, it just loved it. I have my small carb on right now and its got way more power than the Holley 500 setup ever had and even wants to light the tires up if I am pulling out at any kinda curve and throttle it.


I have a new engine setting on the stand, I believe its coming back down and I am going to push it up to atleast 11.5, but probably will take it to 12.5 on the compression. This is going to be sweet to be able to run a daily driver engine setup like this. ONe thing that I thought was odd before I tuned it the engine was cruizing at 17.5 A/F at 60 mph with no hessitation, missing or spark knocking. I could even throttle it going up a grade and it still stayed smooth with no spark knock. This engine doesnt like anything over 15.5 A/F at light pull like that with gas, when I would throttle it with the E85 (before tuning) it would even get as high as 18.8 and it still stayed smooth with no problems. This stuff seems very forgiving. I didnt even try WOT before I tuned with it being this lean.


AFter I tuned it the part throttle response is just great and my poor little POS convertor is even flashing a little bit now. I might have to pull a Slantzilla and hit it with the NOS until I get something else going on . I will have to get my duel Weber/Offy setup worked out with the E85 so its ready for the new engine. It will still have to be retuned but I dont want it way off for firing up a new build and that will probably take a bit of tuning for that setup anyway, heck it would take a bit of tuning just with gas much less the E85. I hope there are big enough jets for the Webers to feed this fuel. The station that had it said they should have no problem keeping it so I am just going to go for it and set this new engine up to take advantage of it completly. I was very surprized how quick I got tuned in for this fuel, but there should be a lot of things that can be changed in the engine to help make use of this stuff.




Jess
Author:  emsvitil [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't think your A/F ratios are correct.

I think the meter is assuming gasoline or 14.7:1 as stoichiometric, and not whatever it currently is with your E85 mix (less than 14.7:1)

Can you run in lambda mode?
Author:  Shaker223 [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Good deal Jess! The E85 fuel has a lot of potential and I know you have seen they are making well over 1000 HP with it now. I believe most of the Dynomax competitors were using that fuel as well. I've used it in my car too but noticed as little as 3 gallons in a full tank can mess with the A/F ratio. I did not feel like recalibrating the carb for the 30% extra fuel needed. From a detonation standpoint, I've read it is more forgiving (not only because of its 105 octane). Also, it may have cooling properties as an added bonus to the incomming air charge.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Jess,

Our CENEX gas has 10% or more so maybe that is why my engine doesn't ping and smokes the tires across the intersection. It bumps the octane rating from 87 to 89. I had to quit using my favorite #57 jet and go to a #58 to minimize the surging at cruise. When I put in 96 octane, it really scoots! I know, it seems odd for a one barrel to do that, but it does. I can hardly wait to get the 4 barrel manifold installed. Just can't figure out what carb I want to run on it. A two barrel or four barrel Barry Grant.

The fuel delivery man says he fills the tanks with E85 first then gets regular 87 octane to mix with it. Some loads are a little peppier than others, but mileage is good especially during the winter months. We got 6" of snow last night. Got two 1920's soaking in Berryman so I can play with the idle bleeds.
Tell me more when you have a chance. How big a drill did you use on the accelerator pump hole? Stock size is about .030. I pushed that size monel fishing leader wire through it. It just makes it.
Author:  Evilsizer [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
just keep in mind your burning more E85 the even 87octane. i have to ask did you convert to use E85 or still running the stock stuff. ie rubber lines and rubber gaskets? if so you will run to issues down the road if you keep running E85.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think I am using 3/8" 30R9 line. I believe that is what SL6 Dan said to use.
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
just keep in mind your burning more E85 the even 87octane. i have to ask did you convert to use E85 or still running the stock stuff. ie rubber lines and rubber gaskets? if so you will run to issues down the road if you keep running E85.
As long as your not running rubber lines that was put on the cars back in the sixties it shouldn't be a problem. All my fuel line is up to date stuff. I guess time will tell, but many have already been running this fuel with no problems what so ever. I think some of the newer gas tanks might have some special internal coatings that have come up giving problems, and if you have a sludged up gas tank the E85 is going to clean it real good, fast , and could stop a fuel filter up on you. The filter I run has a cartridge that can be replaced or cleaned so I should be able to keep a eye on things.

The seal for the gas tank sending unit is the one thing I am concerned about, but a newer type rubber may be used in new seals and should'nt be a problem if it turns up leaking. My guess is they may have used good rubber for this seal though and no problem will become of it.


It just tickles me to death to have a fuel I can extract some performance from that doesnt cost me $6 gal. If problems do show up I will just fix them and go fill up again. Being able to run a engine at 12.5 :1 and higher compression for a daily driver is going to be very nice. The only real drawback I can see so far is I am going to need better tires, high torque starter, and maybe a little better radiator, depending on what heat the engine does put out when I up the compression.


Jess
Author:  Evilsizer [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
ah ok, my bad... just wanted to make sure on that!

given that E85 burns at a lower temp, even with the increase in compression. the engine should be running cooler then as it would have been on gas. isnt it funny what some corn/sugar can do for a car?
Author:  Pat Dawson [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:20 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm curious as to the fuel economy with E85. If you get a chance to check, it would be interesting to compare.

I'm surprised you feel more power with the same low static compression ratio. Must be on the edge of lean.
Author:  Brian [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Around Pittsburgh today E-85 is $3.00 a gal.... :( $3.28 for 87 octane.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
When I put in 96 octane, it really scoots!
Psychological. Higher-octane gasoline does not contain more energy or make your (non-computerized) engine put out more power.
Author:  Pat Dawson [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Higher octane gasoline produces less power than regular grade because the anti-knock additives in the higher octane fuel displace some of the btu's in the same quantity of regular fuel. Now, I'm comparing gasoline to gasoline here, not E85 to gasoline. The extra power comes from the higher compression ratio and better timing that the higher octane fuel will support.

Fuel economy is how many mpg is achieved, not the costs. However, if E85 is 30% less efficient than gasoline then it stands to reason that you have to pay less than $2.28/gallon for E85 to save $$$ over $3.25 gasoline to drive the same distance (3.25 X .70). I realize that you can gain that efficiency back by taking advantage of the super high octane of E85 by increasing the compression rario and bumping up the timing some. But then you would have an E85 only engine and you would have to recoup the expense of the C.R. change.

E85 sounds like a perfect racing fuel or old muscle car fuel and much cheaper than Cam 2 as long as you increase the fuel delivery capacity, replace the components that corrode with E85, and adjust for correct air/fuel ratio.

Did you know that E85 must be shipped by truck. Our existing pipeline infrastructure cannot handle the corrosive properties of corn fuel.

Ok, it's Friday, whose ready for a bit of E100?
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Psychological. Higher-octane gasoline does not contain more energy or make your (non-computerized) engine put out more power.
Well with 9.5 to one compression and a recurved distributor it makes a hell of a difference in power and also shows up in better mileage. I fill up every two days and keep very good records. So much for psychology......

Shell or Standard gas does not give me the same mileage as CENEX with E85.

Yes, they truck it in to CENEX here in Black Diamond from Tacoma.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I bet if your car was setup correctly for 87 octane regular fuel you would get the best mileage/performance/cost benefit.

More kilocalories (or whatever) per galoon per $ . (it used to be diesel)(it can be propane....but not right now)
Author:  dank10fenny [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
and i would have to say that my car really scoots wit that higher octane cuz its not all pingin out, ha
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