So, completed the HEI upgrade. Spent this months budget on a reman distributor (I know, I know, probably no fans of that here ), but the old scrap yard one turned out to be seized after all. Rather than muck with it I just got another. Anyway back to the install.

So, points out and HEI electronic in. All is running fine.

Timing with the points was set to 10 degrees btdc. Seemed to run great. When I got the car it was at TDC and the valves were way off etc. etc. Anyway that is all fixed.

With the new electric system in I set it to 5 degrees initial with plugged vac advance line. Ran it up to 2350-2400 rpm and get 20-20.5 degrees on the dial back. So says to me 15R in it (yes, did not rip it apart before putting in). Sound a reasonable thought?

Plugged the vac advance in and ran it up to 2350-2400 and pulled 39 degrees. Says to me the advance would be a 9.5. Any such thing or it occurs to me that I may not have the rpm high enough to get it to pull more like an 11 for example? No stamping of course on the reman dizzy advance. Really don't want to pull the distributor to change it though. Not now I've got it running.

Promise I will get to the big question soon.

Moved the timing to 10 degrees initial and as expected at 2350-2400 rpm the timing with everything was 43-44 degrees. Not too happy with that number as I read 47-53 degrees is ideal for economy.

So, with classic Minis we can time using the mark, but often the best way to get everything set is by rpm and vacuum. So applied the principal here. With the idle set to 761 rpm on the digi gauge and the vac gauge hooked I bumped the timing up until I got the highest vacuum reading (using the choke pull off port). Vacuum moved to a smidge over 17 with idle adjusted back down as it has bumped up. Set the mixture and then checked the timing. According to the dial back I'm at 21 degrees!!!! initial. Is that safe in one of these? It has not cooled to let me see how hard it is on the starter to get going, but otherwise it seems to run fine. Connected the vac and get 54 degrees at 2350-2400.

Not had chance to take it out to test drive it to check for detonation (disabled and so have to wait for the wife to drive it while I check it), but if I don't get any problems what do you think of leaving it there?

Going to check the plugs after the run as well as I was a bit lean previous to the conversion to electronic. Put them to 42, but if still lean after adjustment I might be looking for a jet or two for a 1920. I've lost the paper from when I rebuilt it, but seems like the jet in there might be a 55 or 56 going off faulty memory.

Try not to bash me too hard okay!!!

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Ok, now I am NO expert, but I did just get done fiddling with my distributor.
I think that the mechanical governor you have is a 9R, double the number for crankshaft revolutions equals 18 degrees. Add in eyeball parallex error and you get ~20.

I also picked up a re-manufactured distributor and it had a 9R mechanical advance governor in it. I swapped it for a 15R (i.e. 30 degreee mechanical advance) and I like the performance much better (this is in a Slanted D150 truck). If I understand correctly the R/L indicates rotation direction (maybe motors rotate in a different direction in the southern hemisphere, ha, ha)--meaning the R or L is meaningless as far as a Slant Six is concerned (it must matter somewhere I am sure).

I suppose driving is the true test--seems like a fair amount of advance, but hey, I had random advance happening to me and the Slant ran (I managed to pull the advance governor up and FREE of the weights ).

I wonder if your crank damper may have shifted or something like that. Have you checked that the TDC damper mark is truly TDC for the engine?

Please note: All of the above could be grossly wrong--I am still learning the details of distributor fiddling myself...

_________________
Slanted D150

Thanks for the reply.

I wondered about doubling on the mechanical, but then I thought that was only for the vac advance. Hmmm.

Reading on the dial back is 53-54 degrees now with everything at roughly 2400.

Setting the new dizzy in I wanted to be sure to get it in right so I bumped the engine over with my finger over no.1 (yes plug was out smart alecs!) until pressure came up. Then tweaked it until it was aligned with dead on zero. Could be off at the damper I suppose, but would not be by much if it was from what I remember.

Had it set to 10 degrees on the points dizzy and it ran fine. Not that, that probably means anything, but I've nothing to make me suspect the damper to be off.

Hope to take it out just after 4 today and see how it does. We've some hills close to us so will see if it pinks or not.

Thanks again for the post.

The older I get the more it seems I've forgotten and need to re learn. Goal for the whole process is to max MPG so hope I'm going the right direction and not hurting mileage.

More detail if needed, if not then trivia on the car. Running regular Autolite, 66 I think they are. Gapped them to .42 after the HEI. Valve set to factory spec from Haynes manual. MPG wise, trying to squeeze out of a '71 Dart 225, 904 with a 3.21 rear gear and 235/60/14's on the back. Got the correct speedo gear in also. Not been able to check current MPG as lost the bloody bit of paper I wrote the mileage on when we filled up.

Cheers

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Well, we drove the car and it seemed to run fine. Seems to have good pep and did not hear any detonation, but will test it further tomorrow to double check.

Seems to have pretty good pep, but certainly not the break the tyres loose, burn out type power that some seem to be getting. Not that I am looking for that as concerned, as I said, with MPG.

So, anyone have any input on the timing settings?

Engine live at that level?

Do you multiply the gov value by two to get the mechanical advance?

Any input on it would be helpful. Thanks

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Yes, the 'maximum' value is in distributor degrees which multiplied by two give you the crank degrees...

So if you literally had a 1974 EI distributor with the 'stock' items in it... 15 governor, and an 8.5 vacc. pod... your max mechanical advance is limited to 30 degrees on the timing light at your damper, and another 17 if the vacc. advance is maxed out.... what will limit this is your spring choice, and how fast they 'react' (long loops for quick advance down low, changing the rate of vacc. advanc with an allen key can make it come in sooner ot later if that's the case)...


Cheers,

-D.Idiot

MoparBrit,

Sounds like your getting it. Good work with the leap of faith to give it a try.
It does make a big difference in making an old slug allot more peppier.

On the timing I run 16 degrees initial all the time now just for the mileage. However, it is fun to run 20 degrees as long as it doesn't ping. It all depends on the how stiff your secondary spring is and how big the loop is..........

The extra power to spin the tires comes from allot of small things like engine balancing, a nice new timing chain and gears, increased compression, over bore, having a torque cam advanced for even more toque, bowl port, good porting of the head and manifolds for torque and not over porting for max horsepower, valve lash set for more seat time to help add torque, a good healthy pump shot from the carb, good hot spark, some nice low resistance synthetic oil to reduce windage, electric fan for a little less drag on the engines power, a recurved distributor, etc..... it all works together.

Most excellent report.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Thanks for the confirmation and great info all.

Okay, so occurs to me that perhaps the damper could be off as tlrol says. With the confirmation on doubling the gov number then I would assume a 9 there. That would give me 18 degrees mechanical. On my first test I showed 20-20.5 at ~2400. Timing was set at 5 degrees. So thought is that the damper may well be 2-2.5 degrees off.

If I follow this premise then when I plugged in the vac and ran it up the 39 degrees I got would actually be more like 37-36.5. Taking 37 gives me 17 vac advance which would be an 8.5.

Would make sense for common items in the dizzy and fit for numbers typically present. So, damper may well be 2 degrees off.

If I apply this logic to my vac setting on it then I'm more at 19 degrees initial plus the 18 mech, plus vac for a total of 54.

Going to run it good today and see how it does. Also give it chance to get some colour on the newish plugs and see where I'm at. I'm going to have to do a search on here on where to get jets as I have the feeling that the one in it is going to be too lean as that is my indication so far on the plugs. I'll fill it too (got a little note book for the glove box to keep mileage in this time ) so I can fill it again tomorrow and get a starting point mpg wise.

I'd like to muck with the springs, but at the moment I can't bring myself to pull the dizzy again after just getting everything swapped and going. Lazy &%&* I know! Think what I need to do first is get it mapped accurately and see if everything is coming in where it needs to be and by how much.

Also need to test the damper theory about being off. Think then finally I'll get into the springs although sounds like a dark art to me at present. Don't have access to the 340 and 400 springs I've been reading about so if I remember right the Mr Gasket kit is the way to go?? Well, a little down the road on that, see where I'm at first right!

Thanks Ted on the boost. Over think things quite a bit so you start to wonder with that big an initial advance number. We'll see how it does today.

Thanks also for clearing up the spin the tyres part. I kept seeing people saying the car spins the tyres and thinking "wow is mine that out of tune?" Not looking for a drag car, but a bit of pep for general driving is always good when needed.

Thanks again for the help everyone. I'll try to email a less lengthy test post once we've given it a good drive out for the day.

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

MoparBrit,

From what I have read on this site some people like the 9R governor and some like the 15R governor--why not try to scrounge up a junkyard dizzy with the 15R plate in it? Now I have a truck, which is likely different than a car, but the 15R plate gave me more total advance which my rig seemed to like. If you can find TWO 15R plates then you can modify one of the 15R plates to limit the advance weight travel somewhere between 9 and 15, say maybe 12 or so.

Ted and DI know a bunch about this--I think the assertation that you should not be afraid and just do it is spot on. Once my rig gets back from the painters ($3500 for paint on a straight, rust free truck ) I will see about plotting my timing curve with a dial back timing light.

I think my rig is at the limit of its parts right now, it performs much better than when I started, but it is "still" a stock Slant Six engine, just the bolt ons are different. Time for a new exhaust, and then some head work at some point. I guess I am just trying to point out that a distributor re-tune will make a difference, but it won't be like boring and stroking your engine.

_________________
Slanted D150

Your junkyard governor choices are: (some might also be stamped 'L')

9R = 1978 super six setup, 1976 Feather Duster setup
11R = standard 1 barrel setup for 1976+
13R = some truck and export models 1975+
15L/R = 1973-1974 stock 1 barrel setup

10R = Mopar performance distributor
17L = small and big block distributors


-D.Idiot

MoparBrit, you're getting high-quality advice from the likes of DusterIdiot and others here in this thread. If you want to make a scientific go of it (not possible on English cars because they don't operate according to the laws of physics), but don't want to spend a whack of money on new tools, you may want to take a look at this post.

The damper's outer ring member can indeed slip relative to the inner hub, throwing the timing mark off. Verifying TDC is definitely wise.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

This turned out to be a great thread!

I love this forum. Great people and honest help! Thanks everyone.

I will probably keep on the look out for another dizzy to play with. Just happy to have this one running after the first one turned out to be duff. Great info on the numbers etc. Thanks!

Filled it up this AM, $3.65 a gallon for low grade, $49 & change to fill, gulp!
Drove it out most of the day today running errands, on the highway, etc. Ran great. I've not heard it ping yet under load etc. so everything seems okay. Only thing we experienced was a slight smell of fuel after a long run and the car had been sitting parked for a while as we were in a store. Looked and saw the fuel filter (yes, have a plastic see through one on right now, but lucky I did for this) was bone dry.

So, just did the fuel line mod. I'd bought the correct fuel injection hose etc. a while ago and after semi hard starts today getting fuel pumped back up into the filter and carb I thought it was past time. We will see how it goes tomorrow and if that solves it. Got the filter over back behind the alternator now with just hose going over the rocker cover to the carb.

Next thing to do is that timing verification for Top Dead Centre on the pulley. Might be Mon or Tues on that, but I'll pop on what I find. Dan, bought a paint pen that is silver one side and gold the other. Thought I'd mark it out and see if I could run the degrees around the wheel and see where we are. If it has slipped I guess I'll be buying a new one when I can scrounge up the funds.

tlrol - wow, $3,500 for paint! ouch! One side of ours is nice and one side of ours is primer. At that money it might have to go to Earl's. Did I say that??

Dan- got that right! I like to approach things and make a scientific go of it trying to get the best I can out of it. Really puts a bend in the brain waves working on Minis at times. Never could understand why the wipers on our Cooper were run through the turn signal flasher circuit!

Okay, last thing I did this evening was pull the plugs again. I'm still looking lean. Not me the plugs. I've adjusted the mix to get the maximum rpm and then backed off slightly so I should be spot on. Pulled the fuel bowl on the 1920 and can only assume that I've got a 55 jet in there. Number on it is 55 with an upside down 2 next to it. Think that is too lean. I do have a Super Six set up waiting to go on, but want to get this timing and carb tweaked to get my maximized baseline. That way I have something real to compare to on the Super Six (and an alternative just in case. Anyone got a 56, 57, 58 they want to sell?

Many thanks to tlrol, DusterIdiot, Aggressive Ted and SlantSixDan for your help!

Cheers

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

I found this link while reading up on distributor tweaking, a pretty good description:

jefframin.org/library/distributorRecurving.doc

_________________
Slanted D150

That's a 552 and may be a bit to lean for your area, you might get a 56 and a 57 and see which is better, but not 'over rich' for you...

-D.Idiot

Nice article!

Yes, looks like I'll be looking for a 56 or 57. Will probably post in the parts section to see if anyone has any. Plugs are lean.

Also still having a problem with the carb. Fuel must be boiling in the bowl (have the 1/4 spacer gasket under it) and going into the intake. Has hard start after being run for a while. Seems to take about three times for the wife to get it started. Have to reach over and do the floor it thing to get enough air through to get it to kick and keep running. Fuel smoke out the back on initial start up then. Going to need to figure that out. Was hoping the fuel line mod would have taken care of it. Does not seem to be much fuel pumping through the filter too. Guess everything looks strange when you are trying to suss out the issues with it. Temp gauge shows in the normal range, but have not had a "real gauge" hooked in to see the degrees. Has a new sensor though. No overheat, steam or bubbling.

Topped up the tank this AM. Got a bit of a slosh out on the ground, of course had this fuel issue when hot trying to start and lost just a little when pulling the bowl cover to see the jet and doing the line mod. Very little though. MPG came out to 16.91 at first attempt at keeping up with it. That is a combo of highway and around town traffic. Really want to be much higher. Was like gambling because as I was filling up I kept saying to myself "Come on twenties!" and willing the pump to shut off.

I had installed a vac guage inside the car. Shares the choke pull vac. The gauge is one that is an almost full dial with a green band up top, yellow on the high vac area with a petrol pump and a minus sign for less fuel used and a red section on the right side for low vac and more fuel used so a plus sign. No numbers though. Car seems to hover for the most part around the edge or one line or so off the red area. Makes me think that perhaps with the too small a jet in it you have to give it a bit more welly than needed just to keep going as it were. Keeps the carb in the load side instead of cruise. Hope to find the jets and give that a try.

Monday I'm going to check the pulley to see if it is bang on and then go from there timing wise. Was going to have another check of the timing light today, but looks like the lamp decided to give up the ghost. Flashes fine when at idle, but if I run the rpms up then it only flashes occasionally. Cheapo Harbor Freight light I think as car runs fine and does not miss or anything from what I can tell.

All part of the fun.

I'll keep you posted. I'm sure I'll have other questions. Going to do a search now to see if there is more that can be done to keep the carb cool. The little plunger thing seems to work fine on the top of it. Is up when at idle and drops when you accelerate. Would have though that would have helped stop it. The work continues.....

_________________
From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

You can go to any auto parts store and order a set of jets (come in a pair)... it's about $8 depending on your store... they just need to whip out their copy of the Holley book and get the part number... it's probably close to a 122-56 or 122-57 depending on whether they still use that parts numebring system any more...

-D.idiot