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| Won't start https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31684 |
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| Author: | Royceflo [ Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Won't start |
I drove my 73 dodge dart swinger for the past couple of days without a problem. It ran a little rough, but nothing extreme, a little rough idling. I was a little low on oil however, about 1-1.5 quarts. I added the oil last night, still as expected It still drove fine. However, this morning It won't start at all. It turns and turns and turns. I checked if acc. pump was working, and it was sparying. Then i noticed the air filter and butterfly valve had a film of oil on it. So i checked the PCV and breather and they were soaked. So i replaced these, along with new hoses in case there was oil in the lines. Replaced the filter, and tried to start it and it wont go. I assume that the PCV and breather were probably faulty and could be why I was low on oil in the 1st place. I checked the spark plugs and they have a lot of carbon build up. But they still jump a spark. The plugs were cross-referenced champion n147's, the new ones are champions, can't remember the number, have the box down stairs. Since i'm sure they were the right heat range then, I guess i was running rich from the oil getting into the carb? Does this sound feasible. I haven't done a comp. test yet, I did earlier this summer and they were all consistent at around 115, if i recall, again notes are in the basement. I think blown rings is unlikely though as I was driving it with little problem last night. Also, there was no oil residue on the spark plugs. What is the proper PCV valve? Recommended spark plugs? Am I crazy? thanks |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
H'mm. Have you verified that there's actual (hard) suction at the end of the PCV valve that plugs into the valve cover, with the engine idling? That'll be hard to do now, because the engine won't start, but oil soakdown of the air filter is usually either because the PCV valve, hose, and/or carb passage is clogged with gunk, or because the engine has extreme blowby overwhelming the PCV valve's capacity (the extra volume flows back through the breather, through the hose, and into the air filter housing). Carboned-up plugs make an engine very hard to start; you may want to replace them again (if I understand you correctly and the "new" plugs are the carbon-fouled ones). Oil entering the intake tract doesn't really make the engine run rich, but it does carbon-foul the spark plugs (which also happens with a rich mixture). Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread. |
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| Author: | Royceflo [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have replace the plugs with champions. I replaced the PCV valve, and breather, new hoses for each. It still won't start. I have 118psi across the engine +/- 2psi. I tried starting with some ether and it STILL didn't kick. I THen pulled the spark plug and check for spark, and none. What's weird is, when I have somebody cranking the engine, i checked for spark, and nothing. But once he let off the key, I got one quick jolt. I was holding apparently past the insulation, but regardless, i didn't get shocked during it being cranked. Just one jolt, and that was it. It also doesn't happen all the time. The cap, rotor and wires are all new. The coil is 3 month old MSD, and should be okay. New voltage regulator (doesn't matter anyways). I rewired earlier this summer, and now Im going to check again for maybe a short? I'm out of ideas. I must not be getting spark because ether should have ignited at very least right? What else should i check that would be killing spark? What's also weird is I was driving without a problem at all a few nights ago, then the next morning it wont at all, I don't know of any electrical that would fail overnight whilst not running. |
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| Author: | Royceflo [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
ALSO, wouldn't blowby be noticeable on the plugs. And my compression would be dramatically low on at least one cylinder. Lastly, i doubt it would entirely stop my engine from running. I hope at least, I thought back to earlier this summer when I did a tune up and i remember that the auto store didnt have a PCV so lazy me, instead of waiting, blew the PCV with carb cleaner and didn't even think to replace the breather. But who knows. |
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| Author: | Slanted Opinion [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Try running a jumper wire from the plus side of the battery to the plus side of the coil. If the car starts and runs, check for a bad ignition switch. Also check the bulkhead connector for corrosion. Electrical stuff often fails without warning. -Mac |
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| Author: | plymouthhillsidehemi225 [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
try replacing the little white box (I don't know what its called) on the firewall with two wires plugged into each end... whenever any of our old pickups or cars with electronic ignition wouldn't start we'd just replace that and it'd fire right up... |
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| Author: | THOR [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: try replacing the little white box (I don't know what its called) on the firewall with two wires plugged into each end... whenever any of our old pickups or cars with electronic ignition wouldn't start we'd just replace that and it'd fire right up...
It's called a Ballast Resistor. On his '73 however, there are 4 terminals, not 2. the EI on A-bodies became standard in '73, and with the EI, comes the 4 pin ballast resistor. I still agree, replace this little bugger (3 bucks at auto store) and see what happens. If you want to do a quick free check, grab a DVOM, or a test light, turn the ignition on, then probe all 4 of the wires while the ign. is on, and then while the engine is cranking, I think you have a partially fried ballast resistor. The Start circuit in the resistor is toast, but it is only active during cranking. It's main design is to give more voltage to the coil while cranking for an easier start, then when the key slides back into the RUN position, the coil power comes from the RUN side of the ballast. This would also explain why you got 1 jolt of power when you stopped cranking... the engine was still spinning over, and as the key returned to the RUN position, the power did as well... thereby giving spark for just a few tenths of a second. I say its the ballast resistor. ~THOR~ |
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| Author: | norcalmoparnut [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
IT will fire when cranking but die as soon as you let off the key if it was the ballast resistor. Sounds like a points issue, or ign. module/pick-up plate if it's electronic. |
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| Author: | THOR [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: IT will fire when cranking but die as soon as you let off the key if it was the ballast resistor. Sounds like a points issue, or ign. module/pick-up plate if it's electronic.
Not on a 4 pin ballast. There are 2 different circuits. If the START circuit is active (actuated by the key) the RUN circuit isnt, thereby cutting voltage from the coil until you release the key, and it goes back into RUN.~THOR~ |
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| Author: | Royceflo [ Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Alright, thanks...sounds good. I'll replace ballast resistor in the morning and see how it goes |
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| Author: | rock [ Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Royce, I'd do this first |
Royce, You have good advice in this thread, but I'd do this first before replacing the resistor. I too would check the voltages. I don't beleive in replacing parts without knowing why and you can change resistor, have things work, then tomorrow not work and you will be back to wondering why. I have seen several ign key bodies wear enough that the release internally from ign to run hangs up and either way...from run to ign on starting or down from start to run. Move your key slowly and carefully and be sure there are distinct releases internally. You can hear and feel them. Best to undo the bezel and have the switch in hand but if too much trouble to do this, then you don't have to. Be very careful not to ground the switch body because there is high amperage there. If you prove your switch is good and see the wires to it are good, then move on to voltmeter testing of the resistor. Another reason I can see why you got the jolt you describe is that as the key releases internally, if it is stuck in between, you will have made and broken a circuit to the coil and tha will cause the internal field to collapse in the coil just as if a points set did this, and you will create one spark, then none. Coils induce a spark with a collapsing field ....interesting to read up on if you have time. rock '64d100 |
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