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| Choke, Fuel Pump, or what??? https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35445 |
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| Author: | Joe Colby [ Thu May 21, 2009 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Choke, Fuel Pump, or what??? |
On my 62 225, I've got a starting issue. The choke needs adjustment because it won't set completely from inside the car. If I open the hood and set it, it's fine but the car starts hard like no gas is coming up. If I pour a small amount of gas down the carb it starts and runs fine. After the first start, it starts and runs fine. It's just the first start of the day. I didn't want to spend too much time on it because it's coming off next winter but the way I'm going I should invest in starters. Ideas??? Thanks. Joe |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Thu May 21, 2009 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Lots of possibilities here, all choke-related. Thick carb gasket instead of original thin gasket makes life better with a hot engine, but moves the carb up away from the choke thermostat, which can mean the choke won't close completely. Or on a pre-'64 carburetor with internal piston-type pull-off, the piston can get gummed up with varnish so the choke doesn't close all the way. Or the pull-off (internal piston or external diaphragm) can be adjusted "too tight" so it reaches the end of its travel before the choke is fully closed. Or the choke thermostat may be internally binding. Or the choke pushrod may be improperly bent. Or the air cleaner-to-carburetor gasket may be missing or insufficiently thick, such that the bottom of the air cleaner hits the choke lever and prevents it closing fully (easy fix; double gasket here). This is the sort of thing that would take about 90 seconds to diagnose and maybe 5 minutes to fix if I (or another experienced person) were carside, but it's more difficult remotely. So, we start from the start: with the throttle held about halfway open and the choke pushrod still connected, will the choke close completely without the air cleaner in place? If yes, put the air cleaner base back on and try again (push the choke pushrod by hand) and watch for the air cleaner base to wiggle indicating interference. Install and/or double up on air cleaner base gasket as necessary. If that's not it, then re-remove the air cleaner base. Still holding the throttle partway open, operate the choke pushrod and see if you can make the choke close all the way. If not, it's time to try and figure out where the interference is. Disconnect the choke pushrod from the carb's choke lever. Still holding the throttle partway open, operate the lever and see if you can close the choke all the way. If not, the pull-off is likely adjusted too tightly, but if you can close it all the way, then inspect the choke thermostat and pushrod. The pushrod should have all straight lines: one coming straight out of the thermostat housing, one angling forward, and then another going straight to the carb lever. If it's curved or wavy or otherwise hand-bent, somebody's been making improper "adjustments". Make this first round of inspections and let us know what you find. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Thu May 21, 2009 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Joe, When setting the choke, when cold, by depressing the gas peddle, dose the choke butterfly snap completely shut with no free play, or dose it almost close with some free play? The choke needs to snap closed tightly, if it is open a wee bit the car will start hard. This condition can be corrected by expanding the "U" shaped crook in the linkage between the vacuum pull-off and the choke butterfly to provide more travel of the linkage. If the butterfly has sufficient tension but dose not fully close, or rather hangs up, there is a part of the linkage that is binding from wear. This can be corrected by checking the 90* bends and clips for worn spots, and smoothing them up with a fine file so that nothing binds when pushed by the bimetal spring. My first 67' Dart, circa 1973, equipped with a 273 V8, would bind up the choke linkage when there was damp weather, and required a helping flick of the linkage by hand to get the choke to set for a cold start. At first I sprayed the linkage with lubricant which would work great until the least bit of dust & grit attached to the oil or about one day which ever came first. After a while if figured out this was a loosing battle at which point I degreased the mess and just smoothed up the worn spots, it worked fine after that. If the choke is working properly, there may be a weak accelerator pump shot, which can be checked by operating the throttle by hand while looking down the carburetor when the ignition is off. If the car runs fine after a start, I don't think the fuel pump is the problem. |
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| Author: | Joe Colby [ Fri May 22, 2009 2:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Air cleaner to carburetor gasket??? What's that??? I'll have to take another look but don't remember seeing a gasket there. Thanks guys, that starts me going. I know the choke works well without the air cleaner. There should have been a light bulb going off in my head when it worked without the air cleaner but not with. I'll get out there today and try and figure out what's going on. Thanks again. Joe |
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| Author: | Joe Colby [ Fri May 22, 2009 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
OK, I found a gasket on top of the carb. It's still in pretty good shape. That's all I've been able to do so far. I'm 4 weeks out of back surgery and can't spend a lot of time hanging over a fender yet. I did check the choke and it's closing all the way. Still no fast start and I think I've got a leak in the carb inlet fitting as well. Possibly more than one problem at once???I It just doesn't feel like there's gas in the carb when I first try to start it. Hope everyone has a good weekend. Bill, a PM to you. Joe |
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| Author: | Rug_Trucker [ Fri May 22, 2009 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: I'm 4 weeks out of back surgery and can't spend a lot of time hanging over a fender yet.
Here is an idea. Jack the car up and set jack stands at a more comfortable height.When I work on a truck I let the air out of the front tires or remove them. Drop it down!  I feel you pain. Compression fracture T-7+T-8, 1981 car accident, microsdisketomy in 2005 on L-5 S-1 from work injury blowing out a disc. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Fri May 22, 2009 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ah, so you probably have no choke problem, but a carburetor issue. Leaks and/or drainback and/or percolation can indeed empty the carb overnight, then you'll have to do a great deal of cranking in the morning to fill the carb back up before the engine will start. What's the status and history of this carburetor? How long since last good rebuild? Done the Fuel line mod yet? |
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| Author: | Joe Colby [ Sun May 24, 2009 1:46 pm ] |
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Dan, I had the carb apart this last winter and replaced everything I could. I wouldn't call it a rebuild but just replacing parts. I didn't try to adjust anything. I did check the float level and it looked good. I did the fuel filter mod and actually think it has a more pleasing look as well as being more functional. I think I'm dead in the water for a while. Why don't I repost this when I can actually do something. Right now I can't even crawl under the car even if I jacked it up. I did try to talk my wife into it but I'm just not that good of a talker. Thanks. Joe |
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