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| P/S gear dilemma, well in my mind anyway... https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36189 |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | P/S gear dilemma, well in my mind anyway... |
I have a leaking, squealing, somewhat sloppy power steering gear box that needs attention. This spring I replaced the "O" rings in the head, stopped that area from leaking, but now the wheel is significantly more touchy. She darts, doesn't like steering input while carving a curve. I suspect that some of this undesirable handling may be due to poor toe setting. After searching the site I'm left with three possible solutions: 1. Spend the bucks on a FIRM FEEL box with their pump. 2. Get a rebuilt box & pump form NAPA or Rock auto. 3. Try to rebuild what I have. 1 & 2 are easy R & R. Firm Feel is top of the line equipment, but how dose the auto parts store rebuilt units stand up? Three is getting less appealing every second that I type this just because of the possible problems that I would not be able to handle, such as excessively worn internal parts... So do I go for the close to 400 bucks FF box & pump, the 220 buck auto parts store route, or... Oh hell, I'm skipping plan three; the rebuild. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Depends what you want to wind up with. The Firm Feel or Steer & Gear units give more resistance feedback in the steering wheel, so you don't have that one-finger "disconnected, give it a spin" feeling to the wheel. It's many years since I've driven an A-body with power steering; I removed P/S from my '65 in '96 or so, but I remember having aching shoulders after long road trips, from constantly trying to find the centre which was utterly not detectible by feel. Probably worth the extra bucks. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
SSDan: "disconnected, give it a spin" feeling to the wheel Hummm. Many moons ago, before polyester leisure suits hit the rack, my first Dart was equipped with 273 V8 & manual steering. I could one finger that wheel once the car was moving. In the those days it had road feel compared to Ford & GM iron, but man-o-man, one had to spin that wheel a kazillion revolutions to go from stop to stop. But, I ain't letting out any state secrets here, now, am I? The numbness an auto parts store unit would be compatible with my current state of numbness I guess. I am just tired of the car being so twitchy, leaky, and squealy. Oh, how she resists turning the wheel when cold and stopped with squeals of protest, and phantom wheel revolutions at the slightest provocation once under way. Additionally, the first few miles of driving offer up unpredictable drive lines while carving curves until the fluid warms up a bit. In other words will the steering be predictable, numb & light, with a non FF box, and not act like her famous headstrong Aunt Christen charging down the road in a blazing rage? |
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| Author: | 2 Darts [ Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 4th Option? |
The Demon has a FF steering box, Saginaw pump, & cooler from a Dip cop car along with a Tuff Wheel. The car also has all polygraphite bushings, and new joints. (Just finished retoration). Set-up with 2º+ Caster, -1º camber, and 0.15º toe-in. Steering is accurate and nicely weighted. It's a little twitchy on center which would be fixed with more toe-in (don't want it). Road feel is as good as a Fox-body phord w/R&P w/o power assist. It can be driven with one-finger on the interstate. If you have the technique where you palm the wheel rim and use it like a "necker's knob" for parking, it won't work here. It won't wear your shoulder out, but it requires a bit of effort. IMO it is all of the changes that made the difference. My 73 has the same alignment set-up but retains the stock steering wheel and box. It tracks fine, but vey low effort with stock wheel. By testing with the 13" Tuff wheel, I know that going to a smaller wheel will increase effort. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I just went to a car show 240 mi round trip with 40 miles of real high grade twisties & hills. (This section of road is quiet enjoyable in my 300, and can be driven much faster with that car) The Dart was very unpredictable cranking through these turns and hard to stay in my lane & out of the shoulder. It would dart left & right depending on how fast the steering input was applied and how much. In other words the more the wheel was turned, the faster the radius change took place. Several conditions maybe contributing to this problem: Poor caster setting limited by physical geometry of my front end -1 deg & + .7. with offset corrector bushings. Was -6 and -3 degrees the first go around. Monday or Tuesday UPS will be delivering new tubular upper control arms with much more adjustment to solve this problem. Probably the toe is off a bit as it acts like she is toed out, camber maybe not so hot eather, but the rack will take care of this. I still haven't settled on FF or auto parts rebuilt boxes. I'm leaning to FF, but my Scotch heritage is getting in the way... Am I understanding the FF steering action correctly: The effort to turn the wheel is increased, and can be had in three levels. Dose the rate that one can turn the wheel lock to lock diminish, or dose it remain the same. Reason I ask we had a new '76 Cordoba, and that damn power steering could become over whelmed with rapid wheel imput to the point that it would stop turning until the pump caught up. This sucked big time during spirited over steer sessions... I suspect that an auto parts store rebuilt pump would work satisfactorily as apposed to FF's higher priced pumps, or dose FF recalibrate the pressure output of their units? If I don't change out the gear when I install the new UCA's this week, and have the car's front end aligned, will I need a second alignment later when I install "someone's" rebuilt box? Or, should I just hang on, and gather all parts; UCA's, box & pump, and install all at the same time? |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This thread gets interesting on the subject of P/S pump performance. |
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| Author: | madmax/6 [ Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Have both a power steering 62 valiant and a manual box one,hated the power steering,,way too sensitve.Put the firm feel #2 box in the car and now it feels pefect to me,alot like manual but easier,I am 100% happy and I am picky.Mark |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:20 am ] |
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I have the Federal pump, it has a stripped bracket to pump bolt facing the firewall. There is always some leakage around this area after a few hundred miles. Now I guessing most of the rebuilt pumps are of the standard volume specification, and that is fine for this car as she ain't no auto cross beast, just a boulevard queen that at times would like to hike up her dress and have a whorl through the twisties once and a while. My choice meter is now pointing strongly to FF's box. As I am believing the quality is enjoyed long after the price has been paid. |
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| Author: | Wesola78 [ Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
A few years ago, I bought and had a shop install a firmfeel steering gearbox in my '78 Volare. I like the way it steers now. You get what you pay for, in my opinion. |
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