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'70 Valiant build for Grassroots Motorsports $2010 Challenge
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Author:  dok33 [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  '70 Valiant build for Grassroots Motorsports $2010 Challenge
Hey everyone, been researching alot around here and figured I'd introduce myself and my project, going to need lots of help on this one! This will serve as my build thread for the '70 Valiant I'm building for the Grassroots Motorsports $2010 Challenge:
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The basics are you have $2010 to buy and build a car (you can recoup an additional $1005 selling unneeded parts) to compete in an autocross, 1/4 mile drag, and concourse. Some buddies and I built an '89 Ford Festiva for the $2009 Challenge (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/2009-challenge/) and had a blast so we're building a couple cars this year, Festiva build thread can be found here http://www.feoa.net/modules.php?name=Fo ... sc&start=0 if anyone is interested.

I've build a couple of FWD cars and a 600+hp '89 Supra that currently serves as my fun car, but I don't have any experience making a 39yr old torsion/leaf car handle (especially on a budget) so I'd appreciate any input on my plans you guys can provide!

This started out as a personal project I bought cheap needing an oil pump (replaced with a $40 ebay NOS pump) but after a couple of parts scores I realized it could be a unique Challenge car. Overall it's pretty solid, needs some floor pan repair and has some horrible bondo work courtesy of a 17yr old under the less than stellar paint job. Probably can't afford paint in my budget though so I'll make it look as nice as I can!

Parts-wise, I got a all newly rebuilt 8.25" LBP axle with 3.55 gears and an auburn posi for $400 and the guy threw in a set of new addco front and rear swaybars, mint cluster, new mirrors, signals, and a bunch of other stuff I can sell off because he was getting out of Mopars. I also picked up a Volare front clip with all new brakes, ball joints etc. and Fatman 2" drop spindles dirty cheap so I'm all set in the suspension and brake department! I'll also be running some sort of 16" wheels with 225/60r16 Falken Azenis tires that I got for $125 the other night for autocross, hopefully some cheap slicks for the drag portion...

Stock auto trans will be rebuilt with a Mopar Performance kit I got from a buddy for $20 who rescued it from the landfill when the dealership he works for was throwing out old stock. I'm also planning a GM TBI swap and Megasquirt EFI as well as a budget turbo setup to hop up the healthy /6 that's in the car, have a NOS Sniper kit I picked up for $130 just in case I need a few more ponies at the strip :o

Right now I'm in the final stages of suspension/brake parts collection, I found some .87" 340 torsion bars for $85, you guys think these would be a good budget upgrade or are they still too soft for autocross? Also, I'll most likely be running Gabriel nitrogen shocks that came with some of the parts I got so I'm not sure I can go any stiffer. Also looking for a disc/drum master/booster and possibly a prop valve (need to check my parts pile and make sure I don't already have one) before I get going!

Sorry for being so long winded and thanks for looking!!
Author:  Reed [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: '70 Valiant build for Grassroots Motorsports $2010 Chall
Quote:
Parts-wise, I got a all newly rebuilt 8.25" LBP axle with 3.55 gears and an auburn posi for $400 and the guy threw in a set of new addco front and rear swaybars, mint cluster, new mirrors, signals, and a bunch of other stuff I can sell off because he was getting out of Mopars. I also picked up a Volare front clip with all new brakes, ball joints etc. and Fatman 2" drop spindles dirty cheap so I'm all set in the suspension and brake department! I'll also be running some sort of 16" wheels with 225/60r16 Falken Azenis tires that I got for $125 the other night for autocross, hopefully some cheap slicks for the drag portion...
Sounds like a fun project, but not much off of the Volare front clip will work on your Valiant. Rotors and calipers are about it. I would keep the front and rear sway bars if they will fit your Valiant and sell off the Volare stuff.
Quote:
Stock auto trans will be rebuilt with a Mopar Performance kit I got from a buddy for $20 who rescued it from the landfill when the dealership he works for was throwing out old stock. I'm also planning a GM TBI swap and Megasquirt EFI as well as a budget turbo setup to hop up the healthy /6 that's in the car, have a NOS Sniper kit I picked up for $130 just in case I need a few more ponies at the strip :o
in my opinion, EFI is too costly/troublesome for a budget build.
Quote:
Right now I'm in the final stages of suspension/brake parts collection, I found some .87" 340 torsion bars for $85, you guys think these would be a good budget upgrade or are they still too soft for autocross? Also, I'll most likely be running Gabriel nitrogen shocks that came with some of the parts I got so I'm not sure I can go any stiffer. Also looking for a disc/drum master/booster and possibly a prop valve (need to check my parts pile and make sure I don't already have one) before I get going!

Sorry for being so long winded and thanks for looking!!
Someone else can give you advice about this stuff.
Author:  dok33 [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the reply! The main reason I bought the Volare clip was for the Fatman 2" drop spindles but this was before I was going to use it as a Challenge car so I may just find some cheap stockers (M-body spindles seem to go really cheap) and save those for later as I've already got another set of everything else sitting in the garage that would just count as "market value" in my budget. I got a nice set of F&R addco swaybars with my rear axle so I'm all set there!

The turbo/EFI will be some work but it's the part of the project I'm the most excited about. I've never converted a carb car to EFI but I've got some experience with Megasquirt and turboing cars (the Festiva and a '93 Ford Escort) as well as building fuel systems as I'm running an external pump, surge tank etc. in my Supra. It will definitely be a challenge, but one I'm looking forward to!

A little more detail on my EFI/Turbo plans--Junkyards around here charge around $50 for a complete GM TBI setup with sensors and all, and I'll probably machine an adapter for my stock 1bbl manifold unless I can get a deal on a 2bbl or 4bbl manifold. A Megasquirt1 kit runs about $140 if you assemble it yourself and works really well with the TBI. Biggest challenge there will be the initial tuning as I've always started with base maps and don't have one this time around.

Initial plans for the fuel system are to use the stock mech pump to feed a surge tank made out of an old a/c receiver/drier with all the guts removed(http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=122978). I'll probably use a used OEM (BMW, VW etc.) external pump to feed the TBI from there. Fortunately the TBI runs at lower pressures than a multi-port system (15-20psi vs 30-50psi) so the high pressure pump isn't as critical since most flow pretty well at lower pressures. If the mech pump can't keep up I'll find another cheap electric pump to fill the surge tank.

Turbo-wise I'll run whatever I can get cheap, hopefully a Holset HX30 or 35 or a T3 Super 60 as they should spool pretty fast on the slant and make some nice numbers. If all else fails I'll run an ebay China special $170 shipped .63 a/r T3, buddy of mine is running low 12's in a Miata with one of these and it's held together thus far. Planning to tap into the heat riser for the turbo inlet and remote mount it and then fab some sort of carb hat for the TBI. I've got a stock 3rd gen Supra intercooler, blow off valve, and pipe set I picked up for $10 as well :)
Author:  Reed [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Thanks for the reply! The main reason I bought the Volare clip was for the Fatman 2" drop spindles but this was before I was going to use it as a Challenge car so I may just find some cheap stockers (M-body spindles seem to go really cheap) and save those for later as I've already got another set of everything else sitting in the garage that would just count as "market value" in my budget. I got a nice set of F&R addco swaybars with my rear axle so I'm all set there!
I think you aren't understanding me. The Valiant is what is known as an "A-Body" and the Volare is what is known as an "F-Body". "M-Bodies" are the same as F-bodies. Your Valiant has front drum brakes and longitudinal torsion bars. The F-body has disc brakes and transverse torsion bars. The F body and A body front suspensions are two entirely different systems and virtually no parts interchange. The F-body parts won't do you any good on an A-body. THe smae is true for the front and rear swaybars. If the swaybars are for an F-body, then they won't work for an A-body. There are also several different generations of A body front suspension and each uses a different style of swaybar which are not interchangeable.
Author:  dok33 [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry, I didn't explain what I had very well :) I plan to use everything from the spindles out on the front clip, which from what I've read will bolt right in using '73+ a-body UCAs and lower ball joints installed in my LCAs (ref: http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/d ... sion.shtml) and sell off the rest since it has all new bushings, steering box etc. to recoup some costs.

The Addco swaybars came with the 8.25" axle I bought and are a-body specific (were bought for a '72 Duster by the guy I got 'em from) so they should fit just fine.
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a wonderful project and your plans have a great direction.

Lightening things up will really help a lot too, but I'm sure you're contemplating those things too.

0.87" tbars will likely be just fine as long as the car is balanced with front/rear spring rate and weight (as much as possible). Truthfully, on my roadracer '64 Dart I'm not sure I've gone much faster going up from stock 0.830" bars ot 0.920", although it is quite light.

More later,

Lou
Author:  dok33 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Lou! I plan on gutting the car as much as possible (carefully so I can put it back together once the competition is over) and possibly corner weighting it if I can find someone to donate some scale time :) Rear springs are brand new stock replacements that came with the axle I bought so I definitely don't want to go too stiff up front. I've also been reading up on shackle length etc. in the suspension section.

I see that you're in Blacksburg! I grew up in VA and am a VT alum, very jealous that you're getting to see the awesome fall foliage and I'm not!
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, if you can bring it "home" to Bburg I can corner weight it with my scales. Wish I could help more.

Poly rear leaf bushings might be worth the coin. You may not want the rear bar, but definitely front.

Lou
Author:  Izzy Michaels [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
go with some super stock springs you'll get better weight distribution
Author:  dok33 [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
go with some super stock springs you'll get better weight distribution
Got some you want to trade for new OE springs?? For a good cause :D
Author:  Izzy Michaels [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
sorry :( i don't but my dad's duster has some on it and it isn't as squirly as it used to be and people also told us that before we put them on
Author:  Backtobasics [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Grand National Turbo? (3.8 V6 vs 3.7 /6)
Ebay, or Buick Intercooler?
Author:  dok33 [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
GN turbo would be the perfect size, the 50trim ebay T3 I'm considering is about the same size so I think either will work well. Intercooler will be a 3rd generation Supra intercooler I got for $10 with all the piping and blow-off valve :) Fits pretty nice and has the inlet/outlet on the same side, perfect for the 'ol slant!
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