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More 833a OD Questions
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Author:  Trysix [ Fri Aug 02, 2002 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  More 833a OD Questions
I FINALLY DECIDED TO DO THE O.D...trans THING So I.m looking at this thing on the floor and already I see two problems.The Mount is about 2 inches father back on the OD.The speedo gear is different. Any Ideas?
Did you guys , Lou,Dave, and doc have to fabricate crossmembers and mounts when Ya'll did your conversions?
And then there is the speedo cable Thing ....the gear housing is bigger on the OD.

65 Coronet 4dr 3spd.MT....may be OD someday

Trysix

soupitup@msn.com
Author:  68Charger [ Sat Aug 03, 2002 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions
Quote:
: I FINALLY DECIDED TO DO THE O.D...trans THING
: So I.m looking at this thing on the floor
: and already I see two problems.The Mount is
: about 2 inches father back on the OD.The
: speedo gear is different. Any Ideas?
: Did you guys , Lou,Dave, and doc have to
: fabricate crossmembers and mounts when Ya'll
: did your conversions?
: And then there is the speedo cable Thing
: ....the gear housing is bigger on the OD.
:
: 65 Coronet 4dr 3spd.MT....may be OD someday
:
: Trysix

The way I understood it, the OD was a direct bolt in for the B body if it came from a van or truck with long tail shaft. If its a "A" body trans you will run into alot of fab work because the shifter will end up were your torsion bar mount is

TJSzubart@Excite.com
Author:  Doctor Dodge (Doug Dutra) [ Sat Aug 03, 2002 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions *PIC*
Quote:
: I FINALLY DECIDED TO DO THE O.D...trans THING
: So I.m looking at this thing on the floor
: and already I see two problems.The Mount is
: about 2 inches father back on the OD.The
: speedo gear is different. Any Ideas?


Good decision, the 4 speed will be a nice improvement. Be forwarned, you will find the gear spacing kinda wide on the OD unit, especially if you have a 3.23 or higher rearend ratio.

As for the crossmember mount, are you sure you have a B-Body 833?
See the PIC below and look for the 3 bolt shift mounting "triangle pad" on the tailhousing. (lower right of this PIC)

This is how the B-Body 833 tailhousing should look so let us know what you see. (A-Body shifter mount pad is behind the crossmember mount)
DD

Image
Author:  Trysix [ Sat Aug 03, 2002 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions
Quote:
: Good decision, the 4 speed will be a nice
: improvement. Be forwarned, you will find the
: gear spacing kinda wide on the OD unit,
: especially if you have a 3.23 or higher
: rearend ratio.
:
: As for the crossmember mount, are you sure you
: have a B-Body 833?
: See the PIC below and look for the 3 bolt shift
: mounting "triangle pad" on the
: tailhousing. (lower right of this PIC)
:
: This is how the B-Body 833 tailhousing should
: look so let us know what you see. (A-Body
: shifter mount pad is behind the crossmember
: mount)
: DD

Doc: The trans I have has a long tail shaft, with two shifter mounts one just in frnt of the mount and one way back on the tail housing. I look at two of thses from 80 something dodge trucks and they are the same. I went this morning and looked at one in a Volore and it was the same as the truck ones except it had a shorter tail shaft.
At this point my plan is to get the 3speed out and lay them side by side for comparison.
Looks like I'm gonna learn a lot about fabricating.

Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know if I decide to brun it too the ground, before long.HA!

David

soupitup@msn.com
Author:  Trysix [ Sat Aug 03, 2002 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions
Oh by the way, some approx.measurements Are as follows.

THE 65 3 Spd.: overall lenght is about 24 inches from bell mount to extension seal. The cnter of mount pad is about 135/8 in. from bell mount surface.
The OD: overall lenght 28" overall and 151/2" to mount pad. The pad on the 3 speed also has a wider spreed on mount blots also
THE Bell housings look about the same except the clutch pivot is mounted differently.

Like I said a lot of fabricating

Thanks again

David


soupitup@msn.com
Author:  Doctor Dodge (Doug Dutra) [ Sat Aug 03, 2002 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions
Quote:
: Oh by the way, some approx.measurements Are as
: follows.
:
: THE 65 3 Spd.: overall lenght is about 24
: inches from bell mount to extension seal.
: The cnter of mount pad is about 135/8 in.
: from bell mount surface.
: The OD: overall lenght 28" overall and
: 151/2" to mount pad. The pad on the 3
: speed also has a wider spreed on mount blots
: also
: THE Bell housings look about the same except
: the clutch pivot is mounted differently.
: Like I said a lot of fabricating
: Thanks again
: David


Does the tranny crossmember have a welded-on box extender that reaches forward to the 3 speed mount? A different (727 / 4-speed) tranny crossmember may be needed.

The clutch linkage and the speedo cable can be made to work with some "reworking" effort.
My bet is that there are factory "bolt-in" parts available for this swap, you just need to locate them. (it may be faster to just fab. them up as you are planning)
DD
Author:  Dave Clement [ Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions
Quote:
: I FINALLY DECIDED TO DO THE O.D...trans THING
: So I.m looking at this thing on the floor
: and already I see two problems.The Mount is
: about 2 inches father back on the OD.The
: speedo gear is different. Any Ideas?
: Did you guys , Lou,Dave, and doc have to
: fabricate crossmembers and mounts when Ya'll
: did your conversions?
: And then there is the speedo cable Thing
: ....the gear housing is bigger on the OD.
:
: 65 Coronet 4dr 3spd.MT....may be OD someday


When I swapped from the 3 speed colum shift in my 68 Barracuda to the long tailshaft A833OD from a D100 the only fabricating I had to do (besides the tunnel extension) was to make a mounting plate that postioned the shifter forward from the rear shifter mount and shorten the drive shaft. Here are the things I found;

1. The three speed bellhousing in my Barracuda did not have a bolt pattern for the three speed and the bearing support pilot hole was to small. I used the bellhousing from the pickup.
2. The 3 speed tranny mount transfered directly to the OD 4spd and mounted up with no modifications to the cross member. The distance from the face of the tranny to the center line of the tranny mount was the same for both the 3spd and 4 spd and the distance down from the centerline of the output shaft to the face of the tranny mount were the same. I read that early B-bodies did have trannies mounts in a different location. Latter all trannies had the tranny mounts in the same postion. Likely a latter B-body tranny cross member will solve your problem.
3. The z-bar pivot on the 3spd bellhousing transfered directly to the 4spd bellhousing. The truck pivot was longer and in a differnt postion but the mounting pad is in the same location.
4. I had to use the truck clutch fork because the pivot in the bellhousing was a ball on the truck and a bracket in the 3spd and they were not interchangable (bracket bolts on with two screws the ball pivot is threaded in). The extra 1" length on the truck clutch fork does not interfer or cause any problems. I am running 6 into 2 headers too.
5. The front boss on the front shifter pad on the OD 4spd interfers with the a-body torsion bar cross member. You can either dent the cross member or do as I did and cut the boss off.
6. The output shaft on the 3spd is smaller than the 4spd. You will need a slip yoke from either a 4spd or 727 car with a universal that matches your drive shaft (or get a cross over universal).
7. I forget the actual dimension but I had to shorten the drive shaft about 3 3/8".
8. I used standard 4spd a-body shifter rods. The flipped over 3/4 lever puts the rod close to the cross member but since I was fabricating a mounting plate anyway I made sure that I had enough clearance before drilling the shifter mounting holes in the new plate. I used the standard a-body shift mounting plate along with about 1/2" of spacers on my fabricated mounting plate to locate the shifter towards the left so it came through the floor in the correct postion.
9. The shifter mechanism that was on the truck was made by Hurst and looked just like a Competion Plus shifter without the adjustable stops and had the bayonet attachement for the shifter handle. I used this shifter with a handle off an old 3spd shifter I had. I did have to ream out one hole on the shifter and one on one of the tranny levers to fit the a-body rods.
10. The speedo drive mechanism from the 3spd swapped directly into the OD 4spd so the tire diameter issue was not an issue.

Dave Clement

Hot-Rod 6
dave.clement@motorola.com
Author:  Trysix [ Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More 833a OD Questions
Dave,

Thanks again for the detailed info. I don't know when things started changing but there are big differences between 65 model B bodies and what was gained in interchangability in the later models..I do know in the early seventies and 80's things started to get more uniform.I looked at a 78 Volore and this swap would have been a bolt in with the exception of the drive shaft.I think maybe I know now why ya don't see many 65 B bodies around.

Anyway I haven't done any trans swaps before so this will be interesting. My plan is to get the shift fork problem solved first, bolt up the bellhousing to the engine. After making sure this all works , I'll bolt up the tranny and fabricate a crossmember/mount. Then I'll deside if I need to alter the shifter location....and cut the hump and refab...whatever.Then I'll get a driveshaft made.
Finally I will see if there is something I can do with the speedo cable.
At least I have a plan of attack.
Wish me luck and thanks again.

Trysix/with B body /OD

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