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| Got the poop from original builder of my car. https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41613 |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Got the poop from original builder of my car. |
This afternoon, I located the fellow that built up my Dart in 1993, at an undisclosed location, on the north shore of Massachusetts. He graciously indulged my queries, even sounded excited that 10 years after selling the car, it would find him… We discussed its history, starting with what the hell camshaft was in it. To which he said; I got it from Clifford, it was their race cam, and the lift was right around 0.500 inches. He asked if the reverse valve body was still in it, no I told him I replaced it with an auto / manual unit. Then he told me this was the sixth engine he had built for it, because the others blew up. He drag raced it every weekend for ten years down at Englishtown, NJ. He said he would pull into his hotel, pull the 3.55 pumpkin, and swap in a 4.10 in the parking lot, to race for the weekend, and than put back the 3.55’s for the ride home. "This last engine was balanced, had Clifford pistons, and was bullet proof"; he said. I asked what he had been using for a red line; "6500 rpm, and it just kept taking it…", was the reply. To me this is a bit robust. The block that is in the car presently checks out with the build he had: 0.030" over pistons, black paint, and hot cam, so I think it is the same one. Apparently the head I have on the car was not the one he had been using, as his was ported, had over sized valves, and produced a 10.0:1 CR. Then he went on to say he won his class four times at Racyway Park with the Dart. It has run 13.60 with the 4.10 gears. That is faster than my 300 C by a half second or so. So dose anybody know what Clifford was selling for a race cam around 1994, and type of race pistons? Ted and a few others would love to know, wink-wink. Bill |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bill, Finally! ......very cool. I will try and dig out the old catalog I printed from the website years ago and find out. There were no pictures of the pistons at that time. I think you meant a .500 " lift cam?????? If so, I think you have it running pretty good........It must have a heck of a lope!  No wonder the vacuum is low at idle. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Oooops, did I say 0.050"? Yea, five hundredths is just staggering. No wonder I can't get any power out of her... Sorry for the decimal point problem. That would be great Ted, if you can dig up a spec sheet for that cam. Woo-hoo. |
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| Author: | Doc [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Clifford did not offer a lot of profiles right at .500 lift, more were at .530 Here is one I did find: Clifford # 95-1192 280/290 advertized duration 246 - 256 @ .050 0.354 / 0.354 lobe lift - 0.498 / 0.500 @ valve I. opens @32 I. closes @ 68 E. opens @73 E. closes @ 37 overlap = 68 degrees, Lobe Sep. = 108 ICL =108 2500 to 5000 RPM short track, limited carb. $199.00 Notching required. (I always felt Clifford understated operation RPMs for the profiles they sold) DD |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Doc, I guess I didn’t say clearly what PO said about the cam. It went something like this: Hummmm… It was their race cam. It had a lift of about 0.500â€, maybe 0.520…, no… just under 500, I can’t remember its been a long time, anyway it was over or under, around…well, close to 500. This guy hasn’t owned the car since around 2001, so I can understand not being ready for the little pop quiz I sprung on him. I’m not cam fluent, but isn’t this grind rather aggressive? That cam you found, seams to have the same power & torque parameters, as my engine is rather limp under 2500 rpm, and pulls hard over 3000 rpm. So, based on this bit of borderline information, any tips on tuning to get a bit more out of this engine. I’m liking that 13.6 number… Bill |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think it's safe to say you have a big cam, which will really suck with low compression (power, low end, mileage). Lou |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mystery cam |
Bill, I found my old 2000 Clifford catalog and have all the cams listed. They have some pretty large lash settings. The one Doc listed (280/290M) calls for .024 intake and .026 exhaust Quote: Short track cam designed to be used with limited carburetion. Rough idle. Stick only.
Do you want the listings on the smaller or larger cams?From yours on up there is a 290M, 290/300M, 300M, 310M and 320M. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
[quote]I found my old 2000 Clifford catalog and have all the cams listed. Do you want the listings on the smaller or larger cams? From yours on up there is a 290M, 290/300M, 300M, 310M and 320M.[/quote] Good find Ted, thanks for looking. Still don’t know just what I have for a grind as yet, if you could list say one above & below what Doc has illustrated, preferably cams for automatic transmissions. I don’t think the PO would have installed a standard transmission cam, as he & his dad have had an automotive repair shop for years. Or if possible, PM me with a scan of the information if that would be easer. I just got back from the old house, and the dial indicator turned out to be a Polarplanimiter (spelling?). I shall try to locate the proper rigging to measure the cam’s vertical lift. [quote]They have some pretty large lash settings. The one Doc listed (280/290M) calls for .024 intake and .026 exhaust.[/quote] My lash is currently set at: I=0.018â€; & E=0.026â€. Getting closer to what it should be. Maybe I’ll loosen the intakes a little bit more tomorow, and see what that gives me for idle vacuum. One more thing the PO related to me regarding the exhaust note at idle in gear, that I had to ditto him on, was; most folks hear this engine idling in gear, and believe it to be a 340 or some larger V8… Bill |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bill, Quote: if you could list say one above & below what Doc has illustrated, preferably cams for automatic transmissions.
The one below what Doc listed is a 276M part# 95-1182 .464 lift 238 duration @ .050, lash .016 in. and .018 ex., range 2400 to 5300 rpm, Strong mid-range cam, improved intake and exhaust recommended, fair idle, stick only.The one above is a 290M part# 95-1202 .530 lift 256 duration @ .050, lash .026 in. and .028 ex., range 3000 to 5800 rpm, Short track cam. Works best with ram flow intake system and headers, rough idle, stick only. After that one is a similar split duration cam 290/300M part# 95-1212 .530 in and 515 ex. @ 256/262 degrees The 300M is .558 @ 262 degrees @ .050 The 310M is .561 @ 270 degrees @ .050 The 320M is .580 @ 274 degrees @ .050 None of the cams were listed for automatics, stick only...... You have to go four steps down to find a cam that they recommend with an automatic. It's a 260M .428 lift @ 210 degrees @ .050 |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Ted, First question, as I have never done any cam analyses before; doesn’t one measure the vertical travel of the push rod or height of cam lobe, and not the other end of the rocker that would multiply that vertical rise? I cobbled up a make-shift measuring method by using a device not unlike a magnetic dial indicator stand to locate the high point in travel of lifter, and miked the difference at lowest point in travel. I know this is not dead nutz on, but I’m sure it is close enough for a good SWAG of: 0.528â€. At any point I sure lift is in excess of 0.500†by some amount Also I have reset lash on intake to 0.025†very snug gage cold, which should yield about a 0.024†hot. Works best with ram flow intake system and headers, rough idle, stick only Would this be Hyper Pack or equivalent? Test drive: Set lash: I-0.025â€cold; E- 0.026†Idle Vacuum: New Lash…………………………………..Old Lash: I = 0.018â€, E = 0.026†1000 rpm Park = 12†Hg…………………….10â€-11†Hg 500 rpm Drive = 0 – 8†Hg…Lope*………...0â€-7†Hg more lope 600 rpm Drive = 3 – 6†hg…Lope.*..……….8â€-12†Hg more lope *Idle runs up & down with lope 1200 rpm Park = 13†Hg 1400 rpm Park = 14†Hg 2000 rpm Park = 17†hg…………………….16†Hg 3000 rpm Park = 19†hg…………………….16â€-17†Hg Picked up 1 to 2†at 1000 rpm Park idle Steadied needle somewhat at 5-600 rpm Drive idle…….. + 1†Hg. or so. Picked up 1†at 2000 rpm Picked up 2â€-3†at 3000 rpm Strange occurrence took place during test drive, look over at “Other†for details. |
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| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Looks like more seat time on the intakes helped! I wonder if that will keep your problem valve happier? You mentioned it a few weeks ago.... |
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