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Slant 6 won't run-about at wits end!
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Author:  EWK [ Thu May 05, 2011 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Slant 6 won't run-about at wits end!
I've got a slant 6 in a forklift, its one of those project machines I bought to fix up and use. :) When I got it, it wasn't quite running right, so over time I have been adding different things to it to try to get it running better. Rebuilt dist., rebuilt carb, new plugs and wires, etc, etc. Nothing made a night and day difference to make it run like I thought it should...but it still ran.

However in the past couple of weeks, it was went to running so-so to not running at all! When it started acting up, it didn't want to rev up, now it won't even hardly start.

When it does start, it seems like there is a huge hesitation, the engine is "sucking" but it won't rev. up and it eventually dies.

I have done-

Checked fuel pump and filter, when disconnected from carb, and engine is cranked over, pumps away. Even when you unhook it from the carb, fuel spurts from the line when its not running.

Carb has been rebuilt (awhile ago when I first got it) and just now took it apart and blowed it out. Did find some dirt in the bottom of the bowl, but not bad at all. Still no good.

Checked Ignition all looks good, even tried different coils and all...no go.

Pulled the plugs out when its cranking over and they are dry, which leads me to believe its a fuel problem.

I need to get a new carb for it (next on the list) as mine isn't in the best of shape, but still it was running before like it was.

Carb is a Holley 1920. Don't have another one, but do have a Carter (I think its the modern version of the BBS, bolts up) same thing running wise...but gas was leaking out of the carb, which leads me to believe its no good. Then tried a Rochester Carb that bolted up...new old stock one, pretty much the same thing as I had with all the other carbs.

Also checked cylinder pressure and I believe they were all around 150.

More direct questions-

Now, I feel my next best bet is to get another Holley 1920 carb. Any leads where to get one? A friend told me to try rock auto and looks like they are in stock. But I read here auto store rebuilds are best to avoid. At this point I'm desperate for anything to try!

Also, is there the potential for something on the engine other than the carb to be the issue that I can check out? Like a intake manifold leak?

Thanks for any thoughts! I would really like to get her running like it should!
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Thu May 05, 2011 2:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Timing Chain?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu May 05, 2011 3:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Timing Chain?
My thoughts exactly. If the timing chain jumped nothing is going to fix it except restoring the valve timing to normal.
Author:  Reed [ Thu May 05, 2011 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have you adjusted the valve lash?
Author:  EWK [ Thu May 05, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks guys! :D I'm on it with the timing chain, tearing it apart to investigate, its sounds like it would make sense!

Where is the timing mark supposed to be on it? I can't find anything on the pulley, but I think they may have put a different one on it, its got V belt pulley on it with 4 grooves.

Also which cylinder is #1? Is it the one by the flywheel or the timing cover?

I didn't check the valve lash yet, what's it supposed to be?

Thanks again for the input! It looks like there is hope! :o
Author:  ceej [ Thu May 05, 2011 6:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
#1 is to the front on the timing cover end. The damper itself should have a groove scored in it, or it may have three grooves 120° apart.

Intake .010" Exhaust is .020"

A bit looser is fine if setting it cold. :D

CJ
Author:  4speed [ Thu May 05, 2011 6:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
#1 is next to the timing chain cover. If you have not torn it apart yet you can place your hand over the tail pipe while some one cranks the engine. Should push air out, if it sucks air in you have bad cam timing.
Author:  Chuck [ Thu May 05, 2011 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
You can do a quick timing chain check if you can turn over the motor by hand. You turn it so you can see the timing mark on the pulley, or just make a mark anywhere on the pulley with chalk. Using the mark as one reference and the timing plate on the cover as the other reference, turn the motor back & forth just a few degrees. I usually do this by holding the fan and putting some extra pressure on the fan belt if needed. As you turn back & forth, you can feel the "slop" in the chain. It will turn easy until the slack is taken up, then get harder to turn. Rock it back & forth between the two places where it gets harder to turn and note the degrees on the timing plate at each end. I have noticed that when the timing chain "slop" gets to 5 degrees, it is ready to jump. If you see that kind of slop (or more), it may have already jumped. I hope I explained that well enough!
Author:  Brussell [ Fri May 06, 2011 10:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Im with Timing,
I'd check for vacc leaks and I'd go a new carb(if that one really is crap).
Author:  EWK [ Fri May 06, 2011 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought we had it nailed! Pulled the timing cover off, and it was off one tooth according to the dots on the gears!

Lined the dots up and slapped it back together...no go, though its acting like it wants to start, it won't.

Now, it doesn't seem like it has hardly any play in the timing chain. In fact the parts look new and there is silicone on the timing cover gasket.

There is no timing mark on the pulley. The procedure I used was to line the marks up on the timing gears. #1 piston was top of stroke. Both valves closed. The key on the crank look like it was lined up with the timing indicator on the cover, so I ground a mark on the pulley there for reference. Positioned the distributor rotor contact so it was on #1 wire. Tried cranking the engine and moving the dist.-no go. Also reset all the valve clearance some were off a good bit.

Is there a possibility the head gasket may be blown? Unless I am dreaming, there is a drill and tapped hole right below #1 I thought I saw a waft of smoke or something coming out of. Did the compression test when it was actually running.

Also pumping the gas pedel, carb is squirting gas in...I would think between that and choking, it would run?

Thanks!!!!
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri May 06, 2011 1:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
When you adjust the cam timing, you throw the ignition timing way off from where it was. Remember there are two top-dead-centre events: the one between exhaust and intake strokes (you don't want) and the one between compression and power strokes (you want). Remove the frontmost spark plug and insert a straightened-out piece of coat hanger wire to follow the piston's movement so you can find when the piston is actually at TDC. Refer to this post for info on getting the ignition timing right. Keep in mind the dots on the crank and cam timing sprockets are not necessarily accurate.
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Fri May 06, 2011 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Your distributor probably needs to be pulled and put in to the correct alignment. Dollars to doughnuts the previous owner somehow got the thing to run by insterting it in a position that now doesn't work. Make sure the #1 piston is at TDC combustion and get an el cheapo dist cap and cut off the #1 terminal and play with inserting it until the rotor is close. Try and have adjustment on either side of the adjustment tab on the dist.
Author:  EWK [ Mon May 09, 2011 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Still not running. :(

Pulled the distributor, and set it so rotor is near #1's post on the dist. cap and playing around with a wide range of adjustments, and also turning it 180 degrees, can't get it running!

I'm thinking maybe the camshaft timing may be off? Can you go by the dots on the camshaft/crankshaft gears? If not, how do you set the camshaft timing?

Thanks a bunch!
Author:  LUCKY13 [ Mon May 09, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
You can go by the dots. The problem with these slants is they dont have much ajustment on the dizzy, when you redrop them it can be hard to even get in the ball park of running. Look on the bottom of the dizzy and you will se a extra bolt. When this bolt is loosened it will allow you to have more ajustment. AFter you get in the ball park and can set timing close them retighten the bolt. You will have to remove the dizzy to see this bolt.


Now something is messing with me here, you say the timing chain didnt have enough slack to jump, but it was one tooth off. Ok maybe it was put together wrong and it still ran fair for the application. But still there is something that has had to happen. But the slant is simple, if its got compresion, good fire, and fuel it will run. Heck even if the carb is toast you can just poor gas down the center of the carb and it will fire up for a bit.



SO that leads me to spark. When you check for fire are you checking at the plug end of the plug wire? Also when you check for fire, dont just check one cylinder, chekc two or three atleast.

Also does your coil have voltage at the positive side in both the cranking and the running possition of the ignition switch ?

If so have you looked at the dizzy cap close for cracks ( grab it and pull it like you was trying to pull it apart, but not to hard).


The points and condensor could have went bad. Just the condenser along can cause this. WHat about a wire grounding out in the dizzy ( points wire) . A condenser can make it look like you have spark, but if you was to continue cranking you will see the spark fade as the condenser gets hot. Or it will make it fire at the wrong time even though its good fire.


I believe you will be redropping your dizzy at some point and its possible its whats holding you back now but I think there is something somewhere else wrong also.

Plugs, dry, but could they have gotten wet which can gas foul to the point they can not fire under compression on a old system like this. Even if they fire out in open air doesnt mean they will in the cylinder.



Jess
Author:  slantfin [ Mon May 09, 2011 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
You can go by the dots. Jess
The ones on my timing set were off.
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