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need help with choke and vacuum stuff
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45232		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  CVFD931 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  need help with choke and vacuum stuff
1982 dodge d150, 1bbl, auto

the carb appears to have everything stock for the electric choke, except the control switch, or atleast i cant find one.

and also i dont have the OSAC valve but read that i would want to bypass anyway. but inline is a canister(ford product) pictured here, what is it, and do i need it?

this trucks engine bay is a mess, hard to tell whats been done, and what was stock, appears to have had the "orange box" convertion, but without the orange box(tho there is a ecu) heres a pic of the ecu

and cant seem to find the ballast resister?!?!?

ahhhh!! seriously thinking of ripping out all the wiring and rewiring the whole truck.

bought this to be a daily driver, and it is, but hard to work on something and have to drive it :(


thanks,

Kevin
Author:  Reed [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
What "control switch" are you referring to on the carburetor?

The "cannister" in your distributor vacuum line is a Dodge product, not a Ford product. Provided your engine does not have some form of computer controlled ignition and/or carburetion, you should be able to remove that canister from the vacuum line to the distributor and plug it directly into the correct port on the carb.

Can you post some clear pictures of (a) your carburetor from several angles, (b) your air cleaner, (c) your general engine compartment, and (d) the various components of your ignition system and wiring? These will help us determine what your motor is equipped with and how to help you sort it all out.
Author:  olafla [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Kevin.
I know aggressiveTed is running an orange box without a ballast resistor, his coil has an inner resistance different from stock. There may have been an upgrade done for your coil. Do a search on 'coil' and author 'aggressiveTed', and you'll find it.

I don't know if the ECU is a top of the line MP 'chrome box', or just a fancy, chromed stock replacement, I have two identical looking ones myself. Check if there are 4 or 5 pins on the ECU wire socket, I think all the good stuff came with 4 pins only.

Olaf.
Author:  CVFD931 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
What "control switch" are you referring to on the carburetor?
electric choke switch, according to the wiring diagrams, theres a wire that runs fro the oil pressure switch to the control switch then to the electric choke
The "cannister" in your distributor vacuum line is a Dodge product, not a Ford product.
says ford on it, i wasnt guessing, its a oem ford item

Can you post some clear pictures of (a) your carburetor from several angles, (b) your air cleaner, (c) your general engine compartment, and (d) the various components of your ignition system and wiring? These will help us determine what your motor is equipped with and how to help you sort it all out.
i will take some on wed and post them. i dont believe the air cleaner is stock, the spout is on the passenger side, but wont fit any other way cause of the a/c compressor

and olaf, i will check that out tomorrow or wed.

thanks,
Kevin
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: need help with choke and vacuum stuff
Quote:
the carb appears to have everything stock for the electric choke, except the control switch, or atleast i cant find one.
It's not impossible to find a replacement choke modulator -- I may have an extra -- but you may want to swap on an Electric choke kit #1234, which replaces the entire original choke system -- thermostat, pushrod, modulator, etc. -- with new and adjustable components (the factory item is not adjustable).
Quote:
and also i dont have the OSAC valve but read that i would want to bypass anyway. but inline is a canister(ford product)
Delete the Ford can. Run the vacuum line directly from carburetor to distributor.
Quote:
appears to have had the "orange box" convertion, but without the orange box(tho there is a ecu)
The orange box is garbage, so no loss there; this what's installed is an aftermarket Mopar style ignition ECU. If it works, it works.
Quote:
and cant seem to find the ballast resister?!?!?
Perhaps the jerk who made such a mess of the engine wiring didn't feel it was necessary :roll:
Quote:
seriously thinking of ripping out all the wiring and rewiring the whole truck.
If the wiring is as hashed up as you describe, that might be wise.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think all the good stuff came with 4 pins only.
Nope. There are good and bad 4-pin and good and bad 5-pin ECUs. Pin count does not tell us anything about quality or performance potential.
Author:  Reed [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ditto what Dan said about the Ford product. Mopar put very similar looking vacuum modules in other areas of the vacuum harness, so I was assuming it was one of those someone had misplaced in your hoses.You can remove it and run a straight vacuum line to the carb.

Still though, post the pictures.
Author:  olafla [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Kevin.
Sorry if misleading you on the ECU pin count subject. I have always had the impression that the stock ECUs had 5 pins, and the potentially more powerful high-performance ECUs from Mopar Performance (or others?) only had 4 pins.

In addition to Ted's setup with no ballast resistor, you could take a look at these diagrams in the articles section, they show the connections for 4 or 5 pin ECUs, with single or twin ballast resistor setups.

If your troubles are tracked to your ignition system, one way to get away from them is mounting a HEI ignition control module, and a so-called E-core - or other high performance - coil. Check out the entries in the 'engine' FAQ for guidance on HEI.

Olaf.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I have always had the impression that the stock ECUs had 5 pins, and the potentially more powerful high-performance ECUs from Mopar Performance (or others?) only had 4 pins.
The 5-pin module was used starting in 1971, in conjunction with a 4-pin "dual" ballast resistor. Beginning in '78 or so (not sure exact year), the circuitry was simplified and cost-reduced as the 4-pin module in conjunction with a 2-pin "single" ballast was phased in. The 4-pin module can replace the 5-pin module.

What's more interesting to me than pin count is that at least one reputable aftermarket supplier lists two different 5-pin modules, one for vehicles with and one for vehicles without electronic spark control (i.e., Lean Burn). No idea what the difference might be; I've never seen any indication, on paper or in the real world, that there are any 5-pin modules that don't fit-and-function interchange with any other 5-pin modules. There were periodic upgrades through the '70s as more experience was gained and better electronics became available, and then periodic downgrades (cheapening/outsourcing to low-bid rubbish factories in China) in the '90s as volume demand for these ECUs dropped off.
Author:  Wizard [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Home made ignition module?
If some one open up these and reverse-engineer why not build one with quality parts based on this?

Cheers, Wizard
Author:  emsvitil [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Home made ignition module?
Quote:
If some one open up these and reverse-engineer why not build one with quality parts based on this?

Cheers, Wizard
Because they use the cheapest possible parts for the highest possible profit margin.........
Author:  CVFD931 [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
pics can be found here (photobucket link)

also, was reading different posts, and was wondering if when i remove the gas cap is it normal for it to hiss? like built up pressure?

thanks,
Kevin
Author:  Reed [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I looked at your photos. Correct me if I am wrong here guys.

Image

A slant six in a truck.

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Looks like a standard electronic ignition module. But what Dan mentioned about the different part numbers for lean-burn and non-lean-burn ignitions makes me wonder now.

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Electronic ignition module on the left and the neutral start switch on the right. You wiring has definitely been hacked in the past. Does your truck start up in park and neutral correctly using the ignition key?

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Looks like a stock coil.

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Looks like a stock voltage regulator.

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This one has me scratching my head. It looks like a plug that should go to a idle speed solenoid on the carb but it looks like it is plugged into a terminal it is supposed to go to. Have wires been pulled out of the back of the black plastic thing the plug is connected to?

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Looks like an air cleaner for a leanburn equipped vehicle that has had the computer removed and a piece of sheet metal screwed or riveted over the hole for the air cleaner mounted computer. There should be a hose running from the round opening on the end of the air cleaner to a plastic fitting of matching diameter on either the right fender or the radiator support. This is a cold air intake system.

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A Holley 1945 carb that appears to NOT be computer controlled. A good thing.

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Wiring harness on the passenger side of the motor. The disconnected black terminal should go to the temperature sending unit on the front of the cylinder head. On the basis of the obviously disturbed and spliced wiring and the fairly clean looking carb, I am going to hazard a guess that the truck originally was built with a lean burn system that has been removed and replaced by a new carb and a new ignition system. I guess that saves you the headache of sourcing the parts to remove the lean burn, but now you have to clean up someone else's mess.

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I will guess that these connected to some now removed emissions equipment.

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A/C anti-icing shutoff valve (I can't remember the correct name). It disengages the A/C compressor clutch when the A/C lines get too cold.

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Someone has been here before you...

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A vacuum advance on the distributor means that it is not a lean-burn distributor. However, it is worth opening it up and looking at the advance springs to determine if someone used a Mopar Performance distributor in the conversion process. If the springs are two "light" springs (meaning they have very little tension), you need to spend the time recurving the distributor and replace the springs to ones that will work well on a street driven truck.

Image

This has been covered before- remove the component and run a vacuum hose straight from the vacuum advance on the distributor to the ported vacuum nipple on the carb. On more consideration, this might be the line for the heated air door flap on the air cleaner. Mopars of this era used a bleed-off check-valve (again, I'm sure Dan will supply the correct name for this device) on the door flap vacuum line that look a whole lot like the Ford canister in that picture.

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The blue circled hose *most likely* went to the vacuum transducer on the lean-burn computer. Now it serves as a good place to attach a vacuum gauge. The green circled hose might be for the distributor vacuum advance, the heated air intake system, or some emission component. Consult the under-hood vacuum diagram sticker on the fender or bottom of the hood.

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The hole in the body of the carb is normal. The hose in the back is emissions related, most likely going to a charcoal canister. Again, check the vacuum routing sticker under the hood.

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A good-condition and well-optioned 1982 Dodge Ram truck with the optional factory alloy wheels.

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Happy to have an owner who is trying to keep it in good shape.

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The business end of a pick-em-up truck.

Overall, it looks like whoever removed the lean-burn system didn't make too bad of a mess of it. Aside from the disconnected wires, unconnected hoses, and crimp on terminals, it actually looks like they did a thorough job. I would recommend getting a factory service manual so you can verify proper routing of all electrical wiring and vacuum hoses.
Author:  Reed [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is a 1984 one barrel carb with lean burn vacuum diagram:

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Here is a diagram of the vacuum ports on a Holley 1945 carb:

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Hook your vacuum hoses up accordingly.
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