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| Ancient Carter BBS ? https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49972 |
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| Author: | 64ragtop [ Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ancient Carter BBS ? |
Well, the "accidental" Dart finally got here and driving it a bit I find "something" is definitely NO BUENO about the idle and/or choke adjustments. The engine will start and seems to run and idle fairly normally. But after driving just a little, the idle goes way up, and shifting into reverse or drive from neutral results in a major jolt. Once in gear, the car runs reasonably well, though. I'm pretty sure I've never even seen a BBS carb before. This particular one looks to have been assembled incorrectly and/or terribly misadjusted somehow, not to mention the many years of accumulated Arizona road grime. I'm also just learning my around this board and apparently cannot insert an image from my computer. Maybe if I checked the help files??.... They say that a picture is worth a thousand words, and I have pics that would show the problems far better than I can describe them. Of course there are always other approaches. I could somehow acquire a good BBS, though searching the net for one has been like pulling hens' teeth. Then there's the super six or another manifold and carb either of which get kinda spendy and time consuming. Any enlightening thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Anyway, it's tired and I'm late....goodnight all BC |
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| Author: | Mark Mallett [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:46 am ] |
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Almost sounds like your choke is acting in reverse giving you higher rpm as the engine warms up, failing that a good rebuild and proper adjustment of the carb sounds like a good start. Checking for vac leaks is also an easy procedure and can solve these problems new hoses are cheap  I would also check your timing just for fun  Good luck 
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| Author: | wjajr [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:26 am ] |
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Timing increase will raise idle speed. Sticking or slow moving governor weights that refuse to settle back to rest could be causing idle not to return to proper rpm. Other causes of high idle rpm are vacuum leaks, throttle plates or throttle linkage hanging up disallowing throttle to fully return to close position, vacuum advance not connected to ported vacuum. That said; it is probably time for a carburetor rebuild, valve lash adjustment, and full tune up. From “How to use this message boardâ€: http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4434 Or imbedding hot link in above to clean up prose [url=http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4434]From how to use this message board[/url] Post your photos on a hosting site such as [url=http://photobucket.com/]Photo Bucket[/url], and then linking to that site with hot link will get you images posted. I use photo Bucket, once an image is up load to that site its URL can easily be copied and pasted into Slant Six text with a few clicks. |
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| Author: | 64ragtop [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:30 am ] |
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Quote:
...That said; it is probably time for a carburetor rebuild, valve lash adjustment, and full tune up.
Looking at the poor old abused thing, it's almost certainly overdue for those. .  Notice the "unique" vacuum choke linkage! Actually, that doesn't matter much because both that diaphragm and the one in the distributor leak!! (Thank goodness the problem isn't leaky vacuum hoses! That would have been too easy to fix.) Another issue (that can't be seen in this pic) is the fast idle cam's adjusting screw. Well, not that screw - the one next to it that is just hanging out in space with nothing to engage. Was this thing assembled correctly and/or are there parts missing? I'd like to find another BBS and swap it, then rebuild the one I have. Anyone have a source for a functional BBS?? ATB BC[/u] |
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| Author: | 64DartGT [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:41 pm ] |
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My 64 Dart GT has the same carburetor............. |
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| Author: | 64DartGT [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:58 pm ] |
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A 1964 Motor's Auto Repair Manuel has a lot of info on these carburetors and how to adjust them. Picked a Manuel up at the last Moultrie GA swap meet and car show. |
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| Author: | 64DartGT [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:15 pm ] |
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Looks like your fast idle cam maybe be set yo idle the car instead of bring used just for a choke? Does anyone have a good rubber piece like the one pictured for the throttle to go thru, mine is missing and I had to use a piece of hose in its place. Would be nice to have the real thing though......... |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:20 pm ] |
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I don't agree with your eyeball assessment; I think this carb doesn't look hacked or abused from what we can see in the pics. It's missing the link between the choke pull-off and the choke lever, and the choke thermostat pushrod (coming up from the thermostat housing on the exhaust manifold) has been brutalised, but both of those are easy to replace. I'd keep this carb, replace the missing pull-off link, install a new choke assembly, and rebuild the carb. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download. |
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| Author: | 64ragtop [ Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:48 pm ] |
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Quote: I don't agree with your eyeball assessment; I think this carb doesn't look hacked or abused from what we can see in the pics. It's missing the link between the choke pull-off and the choke lever, and the choke thermostat pushrod (coming up from the thermostat housing on the exhaust manifold) has been brutalised, but both of those are easy to replace. I'd keep this carb, replace the missing pull-off link, install a new choke assembly, and rebuild the carb. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download.
Thanks for the replies, all. Dan, my eyeball assessment was based on zero knowledge of these carbs. I am learning as I go. From your summary, I need a choke link & thermost. I've also found the pull-off diaphragm leaks. Thanks for the links to the manuals, etc.I found the Walker carb parts site and looked up my Dart. The site didn't find a match, but asked for the carb #. The number I find is 6-1695, and again the site came back with no matches. They ask for an OEM #. Is that not the number cast into the air horn? If not, how do I find the OEM#, please. I sent Walker a message and now wait for a reply. I'm also going to need a vacuum can for my distributor, as it leaks too. Folks, I'm a sponge for info at this point. Please jump in with whatever info you have. Thanks! ATB BC |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:34 am ] |
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The BBS carb, like all Carters, is identified by a number on an aluminum tag secured to one of the float bowl screws. The tag often goes missing, then the carb can't be positively identified. None of the numbers cast into various parts of the carb will do. For general shopping for parts for your carb, use tag #3838. Walker part number for the choke pull-off link is R32. Choke pull-off is 101-539. Get a good quality minor rebuild kit from www.daytonaparts.com (comes with a better design of inlet needle/seat, but like all gasket kits it no longer comes with the necessary gauge to set the float height  ) or get a major rebuild kit from www.thecarburetorshop.com . Walker can't sell you a new choke thermostat, but I am pretty sure I have a new original type or you can install a #1231 Electric choke kit. Check the throttle shaft for side slop; there's no prefab bushing, this is a precision machining operation—not just a simple matter of removing a worn-out bushing and installing a new one. From the factory, the steel throttle shaft bears directly on the aluminum throttle body itself. With use and age, the hole in the throttle body gets wallered-out (a Texas term meaning "wallowed out") and air leaks in at the throttle shaft/body junction. The repair operation consists of carefully marking the placement and orientation of the throttle plates relative to the shaft and body, removing them, removing the shaft, overboring the throttle body, and installing bronze, brass or Delrin bushings to restore a tight fit that still permits free movement of the throttle shaft. It's been years since I had one of these done. I used to patronise G&S Auto and Machine, who advertised the service in Hemmings and happened to be local to me. They charged about $35 to $45 depending on the type of carburetor, and offered fast turnaround. 303-795-1412; they may still be rebushing throttle bodies. If not, there are plenty of other outfits equipped and knowledgeable enough to do the job correctly; one known-reputable one is White Post and there are plenty of others advertising in Hemmings. Or look at this if you're interested to try it yourself; this is the first time I've seen such a tool on offer. If I'm not mistaken, the BBS carb uses a 5/16" throttle shaft. But you'd have to want to do it yourself a lot; the tool is $200. 
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| Author: | Street Mechanic [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:44 pm ] |
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I just rebuilt an early BBS and adjusted another one within the last month. SlantSix Dan and others have covered many of the points you need to know. You BBSs looks like one from around a 1963 Dart-Valiant. The earlier ones have a piston in the horn casting for the choke pull-off and lack a PCV connection. And yes, there are problems on the outside of your carb. You may be able to fix some or all of your problems without a rebuild; but it probably is full of gum, which suggests rebuild. The screw next to the fast idle screw is the idle adjust screw. A lot of your idle problems are probably because it cannot be set, and you are replying solely on fast idle. Someone put the wrong cam screw on your carb. The correct one has the large diameter section extending under the idle screw. See pictures in the Dart Service Manual or the blow-up diagram with a rebuild kit. Also, make sure you have a spring on the throttle linkage strong enough to keep the idle adjust screw against the cam screw. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:20 pm ] |
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Quote: You BBSs looks like one from around a 1963 Dart-Valiant
No, it's a 1964-up item, and if the choke pull-off is original, it's a 1965-up item. The 1963 and earlier carburetors did not use an external diaphragm type choke pull-off, they had an internal piston-type pull-off.Quote: Someone put the wrong cam screw on your carb. The correct one has the large diameter section extending under the idle screw.
Good spotting. Walker #75-27.
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| Author: | 64ragtop [ Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:25 am ] |
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Quote: Quote: You BBSs looks like one from around a 1963 Dart-Valiant
No, it's a 1964-up item, and if the choke pull-off is original, it's a 1965-up item. The 1963 and earlier carburetors did not use an external diaphragm type choke pull-off, they had an internal piston-type pull-off.Quote: Someone put the wrong cam screw on your carb. The correct one has the large diameter section extending under the idle screw.
Good spotting. Walker #75-27.It's tired and I'm late - g'nite all! BC |
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| Author: | 64ragtop [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, It's been a frustrating week of zero progress on the Carter BBS carb for the Arizona Dart!. I cannot seem to find a source for those two missing parts that I and others have mentioned. Many hours all over the web and several phone calls and no-one seems to have the darn parts, or admit that they have any to sell! Several places have offered to rebuild my carb, but out of respect for many comments about the quality of rebuilt carbs, I'd rather do it myself! So, all of that said, can anyone help out with a definite source of the proper fast idle shoulder screw (tall enough for the curb idle screw to contact) and the choke pull-off link? It just seems counter intuitive to start on a rebuild without all the parts I need to finish the job and get the carb back on the Dart. |
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| Author: | Josh P [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:47 pm ] |
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Don't despair... I have a spare BBS that I've kept around for parts. I just checked and it does have the choke pull-off linkage, but i sent the big machine screw to someone a while back. If you want the pull-off linkage, send me a PM with your shipping info and I'll send it to you (if you pay the shipping). |
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