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2014 Rules Discussion - Attendance points
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Author:  Rick Covalt [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  2014 Rules Discussion - Attendance points
This thread is for discussion of the 5 attendance points that are given for each race attended. Currently, 5 points are given for each regular scheduled race and 5 points are also given for anyone attending a re-scheduled (rained out) race. The amount of these points allowed in 2013 was unlimited. The Killer Bees were unanimous in their support of a return to only giving 1 attendance point per race. They were also in favor of keeping it unlimited in number if we returned to 1 point per race.
Author:  Ron Hamby [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:45 am ]
Post subject: 
I know rainout points was hashed out to great length last year. Since it is up again here are my 2 cents. I don't mind 5 points or 1 point. The change I would be in favor of is allow the bonus point for the initial rain out. After that no bonus point when attending the rescheduled race. Only round wins would count for that race. This would keep it clean and simple. I know some will say we need a point to go the rescheduled race but they are usually held at some future scheduled event that is going to be attended anyway. I think this would be fair to everyone. Just my thoughts.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:34 am ]
Post subject: 
I am not sure that the attendance points matter to anyone other than someone who is chasing a championship. The rookie or the guy who goes to 1 race per year will not care either way. Of all the rookies I have seen, not one came because we gave them points for attending. So in that light I think the serious racers who attend multiple races need to think about the value of the attendance points to a championship run. This year Andrew had 80 attendance points and Ron had 60 I believe. Should the attendance points be worth the value of 2 race wins? I personally don't think so. And I think most racers will want the championship primarily settled by round wins.

I also don't think that the giving of 5 attendance points for the people that return to a rescheduled/rained out race is good. My reading of the rules seemed to confirm that to me. But others differ on that point. My issue is this. If one coast has 3 rained out events and reschedules all of them that is 15 additional points. If the other has 1, then they only have 5 points. In 2012 we had 5 rain outs in the East!

So, I think I would be fine with going back to 1 attendance point as those in the West would like. I am also fine with staying with 5 points , but I think it needs a cap of some number. I will say 40 just for discussion, and it could be any number.

Rick
Author:  ceej [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm for the 1 attendance point route. A very simple way to do this, is 1 attendance point per race day. One race, two, three... Better yet, make it 1 attendance award per race event weekend, whether that person sticks around for the whole event, leaves early, or arrives late.

Showing up is showing up.

Whatever you decide, don't award more than one attendance point per day. I'm good with it.


65 kopeks

CJ
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe that 5 points is encouraging attendance. At least one key racer might not have gone to M-D had it not been for these pts. I do not believe that people will say they came for points, or even know that it encouraged them. The psychology is better with 5, and that is why it will work. What is "fair" is simply by arbitrary choice of rules, in any game we choose to play.

I understand that NHRA gives 10 att pts (one round win) for every race you show up to (class racing), and this encourages attendance and they know this from many years of experience, so we are still lower than they with our 5 pts. We had more racers competing this year and more rounds than the past several years. Coincidence? I really don't know. But, it certainly didn't hurt.

I am happy either way with the "double" rainout points or not. Again, I think it encourages attendance and re-attendance, so it should stay in, but this is a more minor point (haha).

My primary goal in helping with this racing series has been to get attendance up, and have it be more consistent. 1 pt does nothing in this respect, whereas 5 pts at least has a chance to, and I believe it works. A large part of being good at something in life is showing up and trying hard over and over again, and 5 pts encourages this.

In any case, the crowd will vote and decide, but I am strongly in favor of 5 pts for attendance.

Thanks,

Lou
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I understand that NHRA gives 10 att pts (one round win) for every race you show up to (class racing),
I tried to find the NHRA points rules and I saw a couple classes that do give 10 attendance points. But they also give 20 points per rd, and some other bonus points. So with us giving 5 attendance and 10 rd points we are at the same ratio as the NHRA class that gives 10 & 20.
Author:  Ron Hamby [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ceej's suggestion of attendance point per race weekend no matter how many races are scheduled is a good idea. Whether it is 1 point or 5 points. It could work.
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rick, thanks very much for clarifying NHRA att vs. round win rule! That is very useful.

I would be interested to discuss race points for a given weekend, as opposed to per race day. The point (for me at least) is to get people there for some part of a race weekend, so 5 or 10 pts per weekend could work as well.

Lou
Author:  Rob Simmons [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I also believe that the increase from 1 to 5 attendance points seems to encourage attendance more. I can't quantify it, I just FEEL it. :lol:

I'm the one that threw the proverbial monkey wrench in the rain out debate, so I'll stand by my original opinion that racers should be rewarded for towing to a rained out race by getting those attendance points.

I also feel that they should not be "penalized" by not receiving the attendance points for any re-scheduled race.

That is, in essence, what it seems to me like we'd be doing by not giving them the "double points" because we're allowing all comers to the re-scheduled race and not limiting attendance to only those that made it to the rained out race.
(I do NOT support limiting attendance in case that statement could be construed that way)
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
To those who support 5 points and giving them for rain outs. Do you still support them remaining unlimited? As I mentioned before my opinion is that 60 -80 points is just too much for attendance points.
Author:  Rob Simmons [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still support unlimited.

Reward the racer that is dedicated enough to put forth that much effort and expense to attend that many races.

Is it "buying" a Championship...?

Not in my opinion. You still have to WIN races to earn a Championship.
Author:  Kidd [ Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I said I didnt care if it is 1 point or 5 points.I think that points also need to be given for attanding a make up race. I never added up the attendance points I earned, just total points.Our last race weekend it was pointed out that is was alot, so to me, I raced.....for total points, not for attendance, but for rounds total at the end. I am sure it dosent make as much sence as it does in my head.LOL
Author:  slantzilla [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:28 am ]
Post subject: 
You can put an end to this very easily.

Award points for any race that finishes at least the first round. No first round, no points.

Then, count points from a set number of races period. Doesn't matter if you use 4, 6, or 8,.

Then, you also kill off the problem of one side having more races than the other. You could have 12 races on one side and 50 on the other and it wouldn't mean squat.

The only time attendance points even really come into play is if you are counting every race. When everyone only counts a set number they are meaningless.


Just my opinion, but constantly changing rules has killed a lot more drag racing series than it ever saved. It's bracket racing ferchrissakes. Make sure the cars are safe, let people count points at a set number of races, and have fun.
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is great to have everyone's opinions and an open discussion about this.

I have to agree with Dennis' last statement. The rules changed maybe once every 2-5 yrs when Seymour was in charge, and usually they were small changes. Having complex rules or rules changing every year will likely annoy people and confuse newbies. We simply will not be able to "legislate" every single contingency for when things go wrong, or legislate to keep everyone happy.

Besides this, it will be difficult to see if any rule change has an effect in only one year. I hope we are all in this fun/business for quite a while to come, so we have time to try things out.

I also agree that limiting attendance points to some max number of races makes them mean very little.

I do not agree with points only for finished 1st round.

I believe we had the biggest attendance this year (of the last 5-6 yrs?), and the largest number of rounds in competition. I cannot say exactly how/why this happened, but it is encouraging. I wonder if the attendance points have had at least a subconscious effect on folks.

Just some of my thoughts...

Lou
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Having complex rules or rules changing every year
I agree that we should keep the rules as simple as possible. I will be glad when the rules can stay unchanged for a couple years. But the flip side is this: The rules must be established and set before the race season starts. Everyone needs to be understanding them the same. When things come up mid season and genuine questions arise about rules interpretations, then they have to be addressed. When seeming conflicting statements are made in the rules we need to address them. We will never be free of rules changes or tweeks. And we owe it to everyone to try and keep them as current possible.
As a race coordinator I want the rules to be as easy to understand as we can make them. And I also want to be able to point to the rules if someone has a question and say here is what it says. I don't want to say well it says this, but we haven't done that for 5 years.
My 3 thoughts: Keep them simple. Keep them current. Keep them posted.
2 more Cents.
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