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Opinions needed
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54319		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  crater [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Opinions needed
Not planning to do anything to crazy to the Barracuda, but wouldn't mind a little improvement in get up and go. I think the obviously place to start is the 1bbl Holley. Right now its bone stock as far as I'm aware. I don't think CR has been upped when it was rebuilt, but I also haven't tested.

I see two options in front of me now.

1. I find a 2bbl intake manifold and a good 2bbl to put on it, something progressive as to keep good mpg but have the option of dropping the hammer. I see some 2bbl intakes available places like ebay will be a few hundred monies. I don't really have time or fabricating skill so I'd have to pay to modify a stock one myself, so I'd opt to just buy it already done.

2. the 6=8 goodies over at cliffor's are pricey, but they also look to be rather turn key. I'm drooling over their twin webber 32/36 setup. Would include the manifold and carbs (Supposedly pre-tuned for expected use). Only thing I would need from my investigation is to swap my kickdown for a universal kickdown from lokar. Clifford reports somewhere around 80% power increase from just this. Is that really to be believed? That would put me from what i assume is 100~ to 180~? Sounds a little overoptimistic to me.

#2 I also wonder if the mpg can stay as good as it is now? Since they're progressive, when putting around in theory I'd be using very little fuel, maybe equivalent of a single 1bbl since each would feed only 3 cylinders and should be able to run pretty lean with nice even distribution.

Any input it welcome. I would likely also put on headers at the same time if I did #2 since i believe its not compatible with the stock exhaust manifold with the heater block.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Actually, the place I would start would be the brakes and suspension. No point in making it faster if you can't stop or corner safely. Second would be increasing the exhaust size to 2 1/4 inches with a free flowing muffler. Third would be converting to HEI or some other the of electronic ignition (if you aren't already). Next I would look at upgrading the cam. Then I would look at increasing the dynamic compression ratio and possibly the valve size.

You can do a lot with the stock one barrel carb. There are easier and better modifications to do before a carb switch.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Here's a plan...
Quote:
2. the 6=8 goodies over at cliffor's are pricey, but they also look to be rather turn key.
We can save you the pain of getting forked over by Clifford...just send $500 to the board and keep driving the car as is... :lol:

Clifford may look good for eye candy, but nothing they have sold in the last 10 years has been turn key (I like the guy that got a hot rod camshaft from them and it was a hydraulic cam shaft with mechanical lifters...if Doc hadn't been on hand that guy would have been out a motor.) Given that Pro-Line couldn't get a 100% turn key dual weber setup for people in other areas, I wouldn't trust Clifford to deliver....
(be pretty hard to dial it in at the California shop and then have it ready to drive for a guy in Denver....)
Quote:
I'm drooling over their twin webber 32/36 setup. Would include the manifold and carbs (Supposedly pre-tuned for expected use). Only thing I would need from my investigation is to swap my kickdown for a universal kickdown from lokar. Clifford reports somewhere around 80% power increase from just this. Is that really to be believed? That would put me from what i assume is 100~ to 180~? Sounds a little overoptimistic to me.
Only with the right cam, and some porting, and 9:1 compression...come to think about it...I was able to get about 160 out of a supersix setup and 9.6:1 compression, and porting the head, using stock valves...196 out of 10:1 and O/S valves, and cam and porting, and long ram 4 barrel...200+ with lots more compression....

note that dual webers are cool to look at but with two progressive 2 barrels, you are still effectively dialing in 1 4 barrel carb (but can tune the front 3 and back 3 of the engine a little better...but then you have to 'balance them' unlike the 4 barrel that everything is integral to and you are just unsquaring the jets if needed)
Quote:
#2 I also wonder if the mpg can stay as good as it is now? Since they're progressive, when putting around in theory I'd be using very little fuel, maybe equivalent of a single 1bbl since each would feed only 3 cylinders and should be able to run pretty lean with nice even distribution.
A lot of hope is hung on this, and you will be spending a lot of off time dialing it in....even with the 2 small primaries you will have about the same mileage as you have now (or possibly a little worse if not tuned right and the engine build was not setup for the intake/carb configuration).

Personally, I would go with Reed's recommendation and get your brakes and suspension dialed in first, once you put the screws to the drivertrain, a 7 1/4" rear axle and 10" drums will start to complain after some hard driving.


Good Luck,

-D.Idiot
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
The order I would follow for more power, assuming the engine is mechanically sound is:

2 1/4" exhaust and a free flowing muffler
Electronic ignition with an appropriate advance curve
Late model air cleaner with cold air hose
Increase the compression ratio to a true 8.5:1 (bet you a dollar you're under 8:1)
Larger intake valves and intake port work
Larger exhaust valves and port work
Bigger carburetor and appropriate manifold
Custom camshaft
Headers
Author:  crater [ Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
I did convert to electronic ignition already so that is ticked off. Other than that I can see exhaust as doable. And front disks are also on my shopping list.

I don't otherwise really want to pull the motor apart. I don't really want the car out of commission for very long, so pulling the head and taking it somewhere seems daunting. Its just being used as a cruiser and daily driver (which is a nice cruise through the canyons to malibu). Which is why I just wanted a little more out of it, but to maintain mpg.

Sounds like maybe I should just get the single 2bbl intake and something progressive on top, headers+exhaust and call it a day?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:36 am ]
Post subject: 
For a daily driver you want to keep intake manifold heat so no headers. A progressive 2bbl with a proper air cleaner and 2 1/4" exhaust is what I would do if the head isn't coming off.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:46 am ]
Post subject: 
If you dont want to increase compression or pull the head off the only things you can really do are as Josh said.

Best bang for buck....2 1/4 exhaust + Super 6 BBD + EI(with advance curve)

A 4 barrel(or Clifford manifold) and headers on a stock motor is a huge waste.
Author:  crater [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
For a daily driver you want to keep intake manifold heat so no headers. A progressive 2bbl with a proper air cleaner and 2 1/4" exhaust is what I would do if the head isn't coming off.
Does this apply to California?
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Cliffords setup is $1200
Cliffords dual Weber setup is waaaay overpriced at $1200.

I built my own twin Weber 2bbl setup for way less. Check it out: http://s785.photobucket.com/user/67dart ... f.jpg.html For more detail, see this thread: http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... n&start=15

I'd be happy to share my experiences with this setup, runs great.

Tom Langdon sells these 32/34 DFT progressive 2bbl Webers for $90 a piece. See: http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/ ... id=1222026 He has a new website up. He also sells the linkage kit for $50, see: http://www.langdonsstovebolt.com/store/ ... id=1222052

Offenhauser sells the intake manifold for $289, see: http://www.aaamarine.com/servlet/the-17 ... arb/Detail I called them, sent them the carb mounting dimensions, and they milled the manifold for the Webers for no charge.

There are a few things I made myself, the brackets to hold the carbs' linkage, a bracket for the throttle cable and kickdown cable (also off the shelf), but it works great!

K&N makes air cleaners for these carbs, they are pricey, like $70 per, but still you're looking at about $700 for a great setup, over $1200 for the Clifford setup.

I'd be happy to share my templates, experiences, pics, any technical advice I have. It ain't cheap, but it's way cheaper than Clifford. In retrospect, it was an experiment, I broke my budget, but it was worth it.

bg
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  but given your criteria....
I have to agree with Joshua...given that you were looking for just a bit more pep, maybe a 2bbl intake and one 2bbl would work nicely...the carbs I mentioned match the slant 6 as a pair, not enough CFM's with just one, a bigger 2bbl is needed if only using one...maybe buy a used 2bbl intake off ebay, e.g. see http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-DODGE-PLY ... aa&vxp=mtr, and find a good 2bbl and 2 1/4 exhaust, and you're good to go.

bg
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
For a daily driver you want to keep intake manifold heat so no headers. A progressive 2bbl with a proper air cleaner and 2 1/4" exhaust is what I would do if the head isn't coming off.
Does this apply to California?
This applies to anywhere that dips below 100 F.
Author:  crater [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: but given your criteria....
Quote:
I have to agree with Joshua...given that you were looking for just a bit more pep, maybe a 2bbl intake and one 2bbl would work nicely...the carbs I mentioned match the slant 6 as a pair, not enough CFM's with just one, a bigger 2bbl is needed if only using one...maybe buy a used 2bbl intake off ebay, e.g. see http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-DODGE-PLY ... aa&vxp=mtr, and find a good 2bbl and 2 1/4 exhaust, and you're good to go.

bg
I was looking at that specific one, however its from turkey. and shipping was like 160 bucks ontop of the price.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For a daily driver you want to keep intake manifold heat so no headers. A progressive 2bbl with a proper air cleaner and 2 1/4" exhaust is what I would do if the head isn't coming off.
Does this apply to California?
This applies to anywhere that dips below 100 F.
Good to know. Was assuming that was more a thing for places that did actually get cold by people outside of our little bubble's definition. Its 80 out right now here in malibu, and still getting warmer.
Author:  crater [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cliffords setup is $1200
Quote:

I'd be happy to share my templates, experiences, pics, any technical advice I have. It ain't cheap, but it's way cheaper than Clifford. In retrospect, it was an experiment, I broke my budget, but it was worth it.

bg
Very interesting. Be glad to see the specifics of anything non off the shelf to see if it is stuff I could get around here.
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  not off the shelf
The bits that I fabricated were nothing special. I used a really heavy door 4" hinge that I happened to have for the brackets that support the linkage swivel posts, but any steel plating would work, they are about 1/8" thick.

For the bracket that holds the throttle cable and kickdown cable, I used a piece of heavy angled steel that was holding an external oil catch can on the car when I got it, but again, any piece of heavy angle with the right dimensions would work.

I used an off the shelf billet aluminum linkage arm ($10) and modified it to hold the stock throttle cable as a clamp, and another one modified to hold the end of the throttle cable at the linkage rod. The rest of the linkage was the $50 kit Tom Langdon sells. I used one of the extra springs in the kickdown cable package for my return spring.

I can't recall which kickdown cable I used, but I can dig it up...
Author:  '67 Dart 270 [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  kickdown..
I'm pretty sure it's the Lokar one for the A-904, the number is 2904HT I believe.

OK, with that, I guess it was more like $800...wow, I did break my budget :oops: ...but it's awesome! :twisted:
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