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1983 hydraulic engine
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55449		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  1930 [ Tue May 27, 2014 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  1983 hydraulic engine
Recently I purchased a 1983 truck with the intent of using it as a testbed, I would like to see if I can get it running. It will give me the opportunity to learn alot of things about these slant engines without using my restored truck as a guinea pig.

Truck is a bit of a mess, previous owner had electrical issues, removed the dash, removed most of the interior wiring harness and then gave up.

Here is where I am at now, Id appreciate any help anyone can give me to see my way thru this thing.

This A.M I decided to try and turn the engine over, starter needed help, had not been worked in along time and was not doing what I needed it to do so I put another in it, engine was not frozen but very hard to turn over, I decided to pull all the plugs and the valve cover. ( mind you I have not even changed the oil yet ) Last time vehicle supposedly ran was approx 1996

Rocker shaft ect on # 1 cylinder a bit crusty, nothing hard core, mainly surface rust cause I can wipe away some of it with my finger but its still there.

Turned it back over with my remote starter.

Spun very easy with plugs out

Compression check is as follows. Mind you I am using a good screw in compression gauge, not the rubber tipped deal

#1 nuthin/notta, needle does not even budge

#2 same as above

#3 by the time I got to # 3 I got a VERY heavy stream of oil ( and fuel, forgot to disconnect that fuel line ) out of some places on the rocker shaft, not quite sure if I have oil at the # 1 cylinder yet though.

#3 showed 90, then went down to 60 then back up to 90......I stopped with this cylinder at this point, Im assuming that when it went back down to 60 thats when the valves was sticking open. AT this point a valve is stuck open, not sure if it is intake or exhaust, it is the one I am pointing too.

A this point it will not even close with the pressure of the valve spring trying to force it closed. .......After fiddling with it a few hours later ( tapping on the side of the valve spring lightly with a brass hammer it did snap shut.

#4 110 pds but again not right away, it would pump up and then leak down very quickly then go right back up and eventually stayed up to the given reading.

#5 140 pds went right to 140

#6 120 pds If memory serves me this valve fluctuated a bit up and down as well. Not certain. My memory is getting worst with age

I dont know whats up with cylinder # 1 and 2

I would guess that maybe these valves are stuck open just a bit, maybe there is crud under the valves that needs to be removed. I can see all of the valves open and close when I turn over the engine ( with the exception now of the valve that I am pointing to which is stuck open but maybe I just am not able to see that some of them are open just a tad.

What would you guys do? Would you bother to change the oil yet? Its black and nasty ( and old ), just dont want to piss away the money on an oil change for an engine that has broken rings or something else major thats why I decided to take the route I am taking.

Is it a sign when the valves stick like this that the valve guides are shot, seems to me that if a valve is able to hang up that chances are it means its cockeyed in the guide which of course prob. wouldnt be an ideal situation.

Just guessing, I am only trying to learn an so forgive my stupid questions.

BTW I wish that the brand new re-build slant in my truck built up oil pressure this quickly. That was a joke trying to get oil to the top end.
Thanks for any advice.

EDIT: Later in the afternoon I decided to pull the rocker shaft, let it sit in kerosine and soak, I cleaned up the head with my vacuum cleaner trying to get rid of some of that crustiness on the # 1 cylinders valvetrain before it ended up down in the oil pan.

Head valvetrain is fairly clean, no major buildup of gunk, VERY little buildup of anything on the cylinder head itself.

I squirted oil best I could inside valve spring hoping to get the oil down into the valve stem I was able to at one point get 30 pounds ( and it stayed there, no leak down ) on the #1 cylinder. Nothing was happening still though on the #2 cylinder.

Fooling with it further with more oil and I could not repeat getting any compression on the #1. Went back to reading zero on the cylinder.

Forcing air down the cylinder thru the spark plug hole on cylinders # 1 2,3 did not tell me much, I figured if there were a problem with any of the cylinders rings that I might be able to detect air coming from bottom end or out the carb if it were stuck valves.

I can dump 100 pounds of air down the cylinder very quickly but again I cannot tell where it is going. I was using a small portable air tank, maybe I need to fire up my big compressor and try that, put a piece of paper over the carb and look for some flutter, maybe disconnect the exhaust and do the same.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Continuing to squirt oil down the valve stem best I could

Image
Author:  nuttyprof [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Broken rings or burnt piston will not leak out carb or exhaust. I'd say you need to pull the head at this point. Valves can stick if they are crusty in the int/ex runners even if guides are good. What did the plugs look like? were they in good shape / oily / crusty / damaged? That could give a hint what's going on in the cylinders.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue May 27, 2014 7:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I would put Kroil on the valve stems to get the gunk softened up, clean the rockers and shaft so that all the rockers flow oil, pull the spark plugs and put a Tbsp of oil in each cylinder, put 100% clean gas in the tank and see if she'll run. Heat and oil flow will help get everything free and lubricated. Then do a compression test and see where you stand.

Your other engine, if it's solid lifter, meters oil to the top end so the volume is a fraction of what you see on the top end of a hydraulic lifter motor. The bearings in the solid lifter motor get oil every bit as fast as the hydraulic one.
Author:  1930 [ Tue May 27, 2014 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Broken rings or burnt piston will not leak out carb or exhaust. I'd say you need to pull the head at this point. Valves can stick if they are crusty in the int/ex runners even if guides are good. What did the plugs look like? were they in good shape / oily / crusty / damaged? That could give a hint what's going on in the cylinders.
Thanks nutty, I will post pictures of the plugs removed.
Author:  1930 [ Tue May 27, 2014 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I would put Kroil on the valve stems to get the gunk softened up, clean the rockers and shaft so that all the rockers flow oil, pull the spark plugs and put a Tbsp of oil in each cylinder, put 100% clean gas in the tank and see if she'll run. Heat and oil flow will help get everything free and lubricated. Then do a compression test and see where you stand.

Your other engine, if it's solid lifter, meters oil to the top end so the volume is a fraction of what you see on the top end of a hydraulic lifter motor. The bearings in the solid lifter motor get oil every bit as fast as the hydraulic one.
I have heard of Kroil, can this be bought at Napa? I will look into it.

What oil do you recommend putting in the cylinders?

After sitting for so long is there any chance at all it would run, I thought that the carb would be an absolute necessity first?

Previous owner had issues with the stock ignition, he removed most everything and installed a points type ignition. I do not know if it is anywhere near where it needs to be for timing.

All of my engines are hydraulic.

I do have a re-built spare head I can put on this engine and would do that if need be just to hear it run............too be honest the bottom line for me with this truck purchase was just to get it running, I know ZERO about re-building carbs but since this is a Super six BBD I thought it would be a great idea to play around with and see if I could re-build it and hear it run.

I know very little about ignitions but I am much more confident now that I have a better understanding of them thanks to these on-line forums....again I thought this truck would be a great opportunity to expand what I have been able to learn.

I also know next to zero about cam timing and so I though this truck would be great to change a timing chain on and again get some experience with the degreeing wheel ect.

The 86 I have restored is a nice truck, its a 4 wheel drive, sits sorta high and is difficult to work on, this one is down low to the ground and I do not have to worry about scratching the paint so I am sure you can see where I am trying to go with this.

I figure by the time I am done playing around with this truck I will be much more knowledgeable and can tackle what needs to be done on my 86 with ease.

Thank-you for your help
Author:  nuttyprof [ Tue May 27, 2014 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
My 62 started after sitting 23 years. All I did to get it running was put on a starter, rotor, and replace the fuel pump, hook it up to a gas can and a battery. It wasn't even sitting in a barn for those 23 years! Your results may vary.
Author:  Reed [ Tue May 27, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
My advice is drain the oil, refill with 5W-30 and a bit of Marvel Mystery oil (a pint or so, maybe a quart if you are worried about sludge and stuck parts), and make sure you have a 195 degree thermostat in the head. Replace the oil filter with a Wix, Napa, or Purolator brand filter.

Then start the motor up and let it run and idle for a while.

A few years back I converted the 1976 slant six engine in my brtoher's 1983 Dodge van from a mechanical camshaft to a hydraulic camshaft. I used a complete used hydraulic valvetrain I got from a friend of mine and board member. When the motor first started after the swap it the lifters were very noisy. I added a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and after the engine ran for about 20 minutes the MMO had cleaned out the hollow pushrods and the sticky lifters and the motor quieted down and smoothed out. It has been running fine for the last three or so years.

I bet if you soak the valve stems and rocker arm shaft in some Kroil and Marvel Mystery Oil that the valves will free up one the motor has run for a bit. The valves won't hit the pistons on a stock motor even if they get stuck in the full open position, so if you can get it running you should be able to get them unstuck.
Author:  emsvitil [ Tue May 27, 2014 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you really don't want to use new oil..........

Change the oil on another vehicle, then use THAT oil......

:?
Author:  1930 [ Wed May 28, 2014 2:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
My 62 started after sitting 23 years. All I did to get it running was put on a starter, rotor, and replace the fuel pump, hook it up to a gas can and a battery. It wasn't even sitting in a barn for those 23 years! Your results may vary.
Good to know
Author:  1930 [ Wed May 28, 2014 2:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
My advice is drain the oil, refill with 5W-30 and a bit of Marvel Mystery oil (a pint or so, maybe a quart if you are worried about sludge and stuck parts), and make sure you have a 195 degree thermostat in the head. Replace the oil filter with a Wix, Napa, or Purolator brand filter.

Then start the motor up and let it run and idle for a while.

A few years back I converted the 1976 slant six engine in my brtoher's 1983 Dodge van from a mechanical camshaft to a hydraulic camshaft. I used a complete used hydraulic valvetrain I got from a friend of mine and board member. When the motor first started after the swap it the lifters were very noisy. I added a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and after the engine ran for about 20 minutes the MMO had cleaned out the hollow pushrods and the sticky lifters and the motor quieted down and smoothed out. It has been running fine for the last three or so years.

I bet if you soak the valve stems and rocker arm shaft in some Kroil and Marvel Mystery Oil that the valves will free up one the motor has run for a bit. The valves won't hit the pistons on a stock motor even if they get stuck in the full open position, so if you can get it running you should be able to get them unstuck.
My concern is if I have to pull the head after changing the oil than antifreeze/water will end up down in the pan and my new oil change for nothing.

At this point because at least one valve is sticking the pushrod will not stay on the rocker arm but instead just falls away and rests against the side of the head.

Someone on another board suggested that one cylinder at at time raise the piston within the cylinder so that the valve would not drop and remove the valvespring, hose valve stem down with some electric motor cleaner and work the valve up and down/in and out, put the spring back on and move onto another valve. evidently it frees up all sorts of problems. I may give this a shot.
Author:  1930 [ Wed May 28, 2014 2:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
My advice is drain the oil, refill with 5W-30 and a bit of Marvel Mystery oil (a pint or so, maybe a quart if you are worried about sludge and stuck parts), and make sure you have a 195 degree thermostat in the head. Replace the oil filter with a Wix, Napa, or Purolator brand filter.

Then start the motor up and let it run and idle for a while.

A few years back I converted the 1976 slant six engine in my brtoher's 1983 Dodge van from a mechanical camshaft to a hydraulic camshaft. I used a complete used hydraulic valvetrain I got from a friend of mine and board member. When the motor first started after the swap it the lifters were very noisy. I added a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and after the engine ran for about 20 minutes the MMO had cleaned out the hollow pushrods and the sticky lifters and the motor quieted down and smoothed out. It has been running fine for the last three or so years.

I bet if you soak the valve stems and rocker arm shaft in some Kroil and Marvel Mystery Oil that the valves will free up one the motor has run for a bit. The valves won't hit the pistons on a stock motor even if they get stuck in the full open position, so if you can get it running you should be able to get them unstuck.
I will also need to find a source for ignition, no harness in the truck under the dash, need to juryrig something under the hood to get a source of power to the ignition system.
Author:  1930 [ Wed May 28, 2014 2:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If you really don't want to use new oil..........

Change the oil on another vehicle, then use THAT oil......

:?
Good idea, I do have used oil around here by the gallons. I will do this before messing with it further.
Author:  Reed [ Wed May 28, 2014 9:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
My concern is if I have to pull the head after changing the oil than antifreeze/water will end up down in the pan and my new oil change for nothing.
Thems the breaks. I always get at least a little antifreeze in the oil whenever I ull a head or timing set with the motor in the vehicle. However, a little bit won't really hurt anything.
Quote:
]At this point because at least one valve is sticking the pushrod will not stay on the rocker arm but instead just falls away and rests against the side of the head.
Frankly, if you have a sare rebuilt head, at this point I say just put it on there.
Quote:
Someone on another board suggested that one cylinder at at time raise the piston within the cylinder so that the valve would not drop and remove the valvespring, hose valve stem down with some electric motor cleaner and work the valve up and down/in and out, put the spring back on and move onto another valve. evidently it frees up all sorts of problems. I may give this a shot.
See my comment above. You have a rebuilt head. Why waste time? Put the rebuilt head on the motor and coat the old head with some sort of solvent to dissolve the gunk buildup on the valve stems. Get back to the old head when you have more tie, or just take it and have it rebuilt.
Author:  hantayo13 [ Wed May 28, 2014 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
put some marvel in each cylinder ...fresh plugs and gas...you said it was points so hot wire it to battery and fire it up

keep on roddin'
Author:  1930 [ Thu May 29, 2014 2:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
My concern is if I have to pull the head after changing the oil than antifreeze/water will end up down in the pan and my new oil change for nothing.
Thems the breaks. I always get at least a little antifreeze in the oil whenever I ull a head or timing set with the motor in the vehicle. However, a little bit won't really hurt anything.
Quote:
]At this point because at least one valve is sticking the pushrod will not stay on the rocker arm but instead just falls away and rests against the side of the head.
Frankly, if you have a sare rebuilt head, at this point I say just put it on there.
Quote:
Someone on another board suggested that one cylinder at at time raise the piston within the cylinder so that the valve would not drop and remove the valvespring, hose valve stem down with some electric motor cleaner and work the valve up and down/in and out, put the spring back on and move onto another valve. evidently it frees up all sorts of problems. I may give this a shot.
See my comment above. You have a rebuilt head. Why waste time? Put the rebuilt head on the motor and coat the old head with some sort of solvent to dissolve the gunk buildup on the valve stems. Get back to the old head when you have more tie, or just take it and have it rebuilt.
I may end up with the new recon. head but I would like to experiment with what I have first to see what I can do with it. Its not a waste of time for me.

Do you recommend a standard Napa head gasket, is one better than another?
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