Slant Six Forum
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/

170 cam specs?
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56113		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Eatkinson [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  170 cam specs?
I'm just now realizing that I don't have the stock specs for the '60 Chrysler 170 cam. don't find them in the FSM or parts list book. Darn.

Anyone have them, so can compare my cam degree readings to actual?
Author:  SlantSteve [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:16 am ]
Post subject: 
From you previous posts it sounds like your engine has been rebuilt at some stage,so there is every chance the cam was reground anyway...so original specs aren't going to help...IF it is original its 54 years old...get it reground and get a spec sheet so you know where you stand. It's really not worth rebuilding with that cam in my opinion,you have forked out for a good quality improved timing set so why not use it with an improved cam? Failing that grab a stock new 2bbl cam for like $80 and use the original for a paint stirring stick. Now if you insist on using what you have then I don't see what a spec sheet is going to do for you, you are degreeing YOUR cam,so you need specs for it...the best way is for you to measure them yourself. There are heaps of great videos on YouTube about degreeing cams,for me a picture tells a thousand words and a video is a great source for such procedures. I'd say have a look at a few and you will be able to degree a cam as good as anyone out there. When you are confident your reading are accurate post up the .050" figures with the timing set at 0 and I'm sure you will get plenty of suggestions on whether to advance/ retard or toss it.
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Ok, thanks for your opinion.

Still looking for the stock 170 cam specs. No one has these? I'm not finding this information anywhere. Wondering why it's not in the FSM?

I got the original cam + lifters reground. No card with it - they were ground to stock specs which apparently the grinder knows but I don't.

Here's an old post from Doc. Wondering if these events are for the stock 170?
Quote:
Here are the events (in degrees) taken @ .050" lift:
Intake opens @ 8 ATC, closes @ 26 ABC, duration = 198
Exhaust opens @ 33 BBC, closes @ 10 BTC, duration = 203
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Only the company that ground the cams for Chrysler originally would have the master lobe profile to be able to duplicate the original cam specs. A reground cam will not have the same specs. Creating a new master lobe profile costs a cam company about 2-$3000 per lobe to make, and they aren't going to go to that expense for such low volume engines as a "stock" Slant 6 cam. Sounds like your going to have to install the cam and find the specs yourself, but with no baseline specs as to what is considered "straight up", its really going to be futile.
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Just got off the phone with my grinder and he confirmed what you just said. He has a factory master core that he follows and he doesn't know what the specs are exactly.

He recommended using intake centerline as the best way to degree in the cam since we don't know opening and closing events from factory spec.

What I don't get is: let's say the original cam is toast or has been ground a number of times already (which by the way, it wasn't: according to my grinder, this cam had never been reground before and was completely virgin). Well then, I go get a new Sealed Power or other replacement cam. Won't this new cam come with a cam card even if it's a stock replacement? Or will it be provided sans card, since it's supposed to be 'stock'?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Keep in mind there are at least three stock factory mechanical cams (the 232/228/8/0.375", the 241/236/16/0.395, and the 244/244/26/0.405) and while they all supersede to the 244/244, who knows what was installed and/or ground in the past!
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dan. Yes, true. I have been told there were a few factory cores used. Hmm...

Well, I just used intake centerline to get figures. Readings came up at 83° and 169° respectively. Divide by 2 and I'm coming up with an intake centerline on #1 intake of 126°. :?

That doesn't seem right. Or is it? My grinder felt like sharing that these tend to centerline around 108-109°. Maybe my homemade degree wheel is lying to me. Or maybe I am doing something wrong. I am currently using a magnetic stand with a dial indicator pointing straight up and down above the gallery. The lifter is lightly oiled in it's bore, and yes, I'm using a pushrod standing in the lifter cup to give me a reading. Don't have anything else handier to use. I've double-checked the alignment to be sure i'm not getting a false reading.

Is there something else I should try? Should I leave the crank multi-keyway sprocket at 0° and just call it at a day? Or should I pull it off and advance to the 2°+ position, just to be safe?

Feel like I'm flying blind here.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Which lifter are you checking, the very front position in the block or the second one?
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
#1 intake. second lifter in, in the gallery.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, to be that far off on the centerline measurement you have to be several teeth off on the timing chain or your TDC reference is off considerably. It's almost 20° off.
Author:  emsvitil [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try this:

http://users.hal-pc.org/~bwhitejr/Slant_Six_Cams.pdf
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
At the top of that sheet, it says "225 Camshafts". Applicable to 170 cams?
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Ok, to be that far off on the centerline measurement you have to be several teeth off on the timing chain or your TDC reference is off considerably. It's almost 20° off.
IF what I'm being told is true. Which I don't know.

Don't know how I could be several teeth off on the timing chain - I would never get the dots to line up at all if I had positioned it thusly.

TDC is also accurate. How do you know it's 20° off? Do you have the build sheet for the cam?
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
You said that you measured the intake centerline as being 126°, and it is supposed to be 108°-109°. That's almost 20° isn't it. Your off somewhere pretty badly!
Author:  Eatkinson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I said I was told by my grinder (who's guessing) that they're supposed to be around 108-109°. I'd like to be sure about that. I have also been reminded by others that 170 cams are advanced further than 225 cams. So I'm more in the dark than I like - don't know where the cam is 'supposed to be'.

Do people really not know the answer to this? For the importance many people here assign to degreeing the cam, and to not have the base figures means you're just guessing about what your cam 'should be' the whole time.

I see the lining up of dots in my future: this is taking too long.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC-07:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/