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| Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61996 |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
I've been trying to track down the rear shaft seal (or extension housing seal) for the 904 in my '64 Dart. As is all too often the case, the retail application listings are a massive cluster. None of the seals RockAuto lists for a '64 Dart automatic transmission are correct for what I need. A little research on this forum suggests that it's just as much of a convoluted mess for manual transmissions. Pat Blais (AKA torqueflitepatty) has the correct seal listed here, but he wants $20 plus shipping. I did a little digging and found SKF 11518 listed under manual transmissions (but with no specific transmission called out) for 60-65 A-bodies (as well as a few mid-and full-size Mopars from 1960, which may be a further error). It appears to be the same design as the one I removed: no boot, just a rubber dual-lip seal with a circumferential spring. Same dimensions as well: 1.156" shaft OD, ~1.69" seal OD/housing ID. The only difference is that the SKF 11518 is listed as 1/4" wide, while the one I removed is more like 5/16". I don't expect this to be a problem, as the one I pulled out didn't go the full depth either. RockAuto lists it as unavailable, but it appears to be available from other vendors. I haven't cross-referenced this to any other manufacturer number yet. The seal I pulled out has a logo that looks like "Acs" but what is probably a part number is mostly scuffed off. |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
FYI the seal for a 1964 cable shifted trans is different than a 1965 cable shifted trans. Don't know about standard shift trans. |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Good to know. That was gonna be my next question, as it appears the extra transmission I picked up recently is a '65. Is the output shaft OD larger on the '65? Different spline count? Looks like the extension housings do not directly interchange either, as the one on this transmission is about 3/4" of an inch longer. The tailshaft flange itself is correspondingly shorter, though, so it shouldn't be an issue to swap in the whole transmission (as long as I track down an earlier valve body). Does that sound right? |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
'65 seal is Chrysler part № 2464 482. Long obsolete, but crosses to a National № 470045, which walks off RockAuto's shelves for under three dollars apiece before discount. Specs are here. '60-'64 A904 seal is Chrysler part № 1942 401. Even longer obsolete. Crosses to National № 474260, a little less completely cheap but still under $5, specs here. |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Why not use the valve body from the trans you are taking out? PS: You can get the correct seal from these people https://www.fatsco.net/ Call and talk to Mike. Tell him Charlie from Florida referred you. |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Dan, thanks for that seal info. |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Thanks, Dan! National 474260 has identical dimensions to SKF 11518. The SKF I ordered came in yesterday, and I can confirm these are correct for my 1964 A904. Charlie, thanks for the source. I could do like you say, but if I can find another push-button valve body it would be nice to have this transmission built up as a complete spare. |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
I might have an extra PB stock valve body. Give me a couple of days, and then remind me. PS: FYI Pat Blaise (TFPATTY) has the required steel plate and instructions, to build a reverse manual VB for the 64 trans. I had just asked him about that last month, but then I found a NOS TurboAction manual PB VB on the shelf. |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Tue May 01, 2018 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Well, the National 470045 isn't right for the transmission I think is a '65. Just to make sure of what transmission I'm dealing with, here are the numbers stamped on the pan rail. Can anyone confirm the year? 2466119W 1627672 As far as I can tell, this transmission looks outwardly identical to a '64 except for the extension housing being about 7/8" longer. The output shaft is the same length as the '64, which causes the rear seal to ride on the front of the output flange rather than on the shaft. So the seal has to be significantly larger. The output flange is identical to the one from my '64 aside from being cut down to a smooth cylinder where it goes through the seal, where the '64 flange is tapered all the way up. The seal I need has an ID (shaft OD) of about 1.495" and an OD (housing ID) just over 2 inches. Call it 2 1/32". I'm scouring parts listings to find something that matches. Edit: Looks like Pat Blais has this one as well. He says it's for '64-'65 V8 and '65 Slant 6 applications. So I can at least get it for about $23 shipped if I can't find a part number for it anywhere else. |
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| Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Wed May 02, 2018 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Some of the Trans kits I bought for the 833 have parts for all 833's from 64-84, so I ended up with a bunch of those seals for the trunion flange output shaft. Of course I sold them long ago on ebay as at the time I had no need for the seal. Also Try calling A&A transmission: http://www.aandatrans.com/ I am sure Rick and the team can get you set with a part # for one of the seals for whatever you need. Patty B is a good option too. also Try Brewers in Ohio: http://www.brewersperformance.com/ Greg |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Wed May 02, 2018 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
I punched the 2464 482 number that Dan referenced earlier into RockAuto and it spat out SKF 14858. This is listed as a wheel seal, but the dimensions look right for what I need. I'll see if it works. |
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| Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Wed May 02, 2018 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
I see no reason that would not be used as a wheel seal in another application. It is a non booted seal.. makes perfect sense. as long a s the housing diameter and seal ID are the same it should be fine and I trust Dan's Part Info. Greg |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Fri May 04, 2018 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
The SKF 14858 seal arrived today, and it is in fact correct for this '65 transmission. I pulled the old seal out and quickly realized why the extension housing is almost an inch longer. It has a rear roller bearing instead of a rear bushing like the '64! A little more forum searching led me to this very helpful thread, wherein Charlie explains toward the end of the page how the cable-shift A904 switched over to a rear bearing for special applications in '64 and all models in '65. Unfortunately this dashes my hopes of avoiding a transmission swap on the Valiant. When I saw the output flange was the same length and spline count, I thought I might be able to just swap the '65 extension housing onto the '64 transmission. Looks like at a minimum I'd also have to swap over the '65 tailshaft (which is way more hassle than I want to get into). |
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| Author: | SpaceFrank [ Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Bob put together another transmission for the Turbo Dart using a '62 main case but a '65 output shaft and extension housing. Also used most of the guts from the '65 transmission, because it was a V8 unit with the clutch drums that fit more clutch discs. Charlie, this was actually the transmission we got from you at Sebring almost two years ago. Anyway, all that to say I had to dig up this old thread again to remember which output shaft seal to buy for a '65 A904. After doing a little more research to find something in stock over the weekend, I discovered that in addition to the SKF 14858, you can also use a Duralast 1174S from AutoZone, which I think is the same as a Timken 1174S. This seal comes up as a manual transmission output seal for a '71-72 Chevy Vega and a '71-73 Datsun 1200, of all things. Figured I'd put it here in case anyone needs this info in the future. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Early A904 Rear Shaft Seals |
Quote: you can also use a Duralast Maybe so, but who wants to do the job twice in a row? Pretty much everything branded Duralast is damn near bottom-grade garbage.
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