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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:31 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
So now that I've been dailying the cheapest Duster on the west coast for four months, Throughout which the horribly abused transmission has held up surprisingly well, I've noticed some issues.
1: The car hates shifting out of third once the trans heats up. Won't downshift unless you floor it or your speed drops to under 5mph.

2: I know it's a non-lockup trans, but it's so averse to actually going anywhere near locking that, while being floored uphill, the car will go near 3000 rpm while at 25-30mph. In third gear.

3: Problem 2 also makes it completely unusable on the freeway. I get that the car was made for a 55mph world but it can barely do 65 on flat ground with the engine roaring.

4: Due to the previously mentioned issues, the car is getting about 16.4mpg city. Which is slightly lower than I expected.

Are these common problems, or is it actually some mechanical issue with the trans/converter? I've been thinking about a 4-speed swap but they're prohibitively expensive and I'm just so good at killing anything with a non-prehistoric fuel system that I may need that money to buy a car to replace the daily I killed.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:41 am 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 737
Location: Houston
Car Model: 68 Valiant
Memories...


A good friend of mine ran his own transmission shop for over 40 years. He is a walking encyclopedia when it comes to just about any gearbox.

One time, we were in his shop when a fellow came in with a valve body he had had in and out of his transmission several times. He had been sent over by the boys at the parts house, who told him about my friend and his 40+ years experience.

The fellow told us that the truck had no second gear at all, and it jerked badly when shifted in or out of neutral. It also had reverse gear only above 3000RPM, which was also not pleasant. My friend, from 20 feet away, said, "Well that's a valve body from an 83-85 F-150. You have the throttle valve in backwards, the PR spring is where the TV spring should be, and the separator plate is flipped over backwards. You're also missing the retainer for the manual valve."

The fellow thought this over for a moment, then asked "Would those things cause the sorts of problems I'm having?"

"I don't know." said my friend.

The fellow quickly seized upon this, and said "You don't know? I thought you had over 40 years of experience working on transmissions!?"

My friend replied simply, "I have over 40 years of experience putting them together right. I don't have nearly as much experience (as you) in assembling them half-assed, then seeing what they do....."


So the point being....you have an obviously sick transmission. Wondering just why it acts they way it does hardly matters. While it's been proven that most automotive problems are best fixed by simply driving the car more, and harder, this one is not getting any better by itself....


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:43 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24763
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
My friend replied simply, "I have over 40 years of experience putting them together right. I don't have nearly as much experience (as you) in assembling them half-assed, then seeing what they do....."
:lol: :mrgreen: Priceless.

But don't let's go assuming there's a big, expensive problem with the transmission just yet. The symptoms listed could easily all be caused by a missing, faulty, or misadjusted-too-short kickdown linkage. That's the first and easiest place to start.
Quote:
you have an obviously sick transmission. Wondering just why it acts they way it does hardly matters.
Um…yeah, it does. Because if five minutes' work putting the kickdown linkage right fixes it, that's kind of a nice savings over the amount of money, effort, and time it takes to swap the transmission or take it apart, don't you think?
Quote:
While it's been proven that most automotive problems are best fixed by simply driving the car more, and harder
{{citation needed]], because no, it hasn't. C'mon, the guy's already got his hands full; what does it help to be filling his head with made-up fairytales like this? :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:03 am 
Offline
3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
Quote:
Quote:
My friend replied simply, "I have over 40 years of experience putting them together right. I don't have nearly as much experience (as you) in assembling them half-assed, then seeing what they do....."
:lol: :mrgreen: Priceless.

But don't let's go assuming there's a big, expensive problem with the transmission just yet. The symptoms listed could easily all be caused by a missing, faulty, or misadjusted-too-short kickdown linkage. That's the first and easiest place to start.
Quote:
you have an obviously sick transmission. Wondering just why it acts they way it does hardly matters.
Um…yeah, it does. Because if five minutes' work putting the kickdown linkage right fixes it, that's kind of a nice savings over the amount of money, effort, and time it takes to swap the transmission or take it apart, don't you think?
Quote:
While it's been proven that most automotive problems are best fixed by simply driving the car more, and harder
{{citation needed]], because no, it hasn't. C'mon, the guy's already got his hands full; what does it help to be filling his head with made-up fairytales like this? :roll:
Is there some way to adjust the kickdown? I haven't seen one, but then I didn't pay much attention when I was taking the parts car apart. Would that also affect the apparent slipping or is that just something that my 904 (or 904s in general) does?

And I'd already assumed there was something wrong with it. It sat full of water for 11 months and then it ran dry and locked up when I wasn't aware it was leaking. It's still kicking after three thousand miles, but frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it exploded on my way to work today.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24763
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
Is there some way to adjust the kickdown?
Yes. Can't tell you how without knowing which linkage setup you have. Photo of the top of the linkage (where it approaches the intake/carb) would be good, but if nothing else, knowing the model year of the car might be a start.
Quote:
Would that also affect the apparent slipping
Yes.
Quote:
or is that just something that 904s in general do?
No.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:56 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 1603
Car Model:
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopi ... bd#p478639


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 1603
Car Model:
The set up in that post, is that what your working on?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:20 pm 
Offline
3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
Quote:
The set up in that post, is that what your working on?
HA! God no. I'm running a Holley 1945 off of a 76 Aspen now. The transmission is the same one that presumably came with the car, a 1975 duster. The linkages from both cars were the same so I just used the cleanest one.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:38 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24763
Location: North America
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Find the rod that runs down to the transmission. Near the top of it, a few inches downward-rearward from where it connects to the bellcrank on the bracket bolted to the manifolds, you should see a bolt. Loosen it and you'll be able to shorten (push rod toward front of car) or lengthen (pull rod toward rear of car) it. You want to lengthen it. Keep track of the original position and make it…say…about an inch longer. That's probably too much, but we're doing first-step diagnosis here. Tighten the bolt back down so the rod is clamped in the new, longer position. Go for a drive. Anything different about how the trans works? If you've got opposite problems now (holds 1st gear way too long, holds 2nd gear way too long, kicks down if you sneeze at the gas pedal) then back off the rod adjustment about halfway. Keep finessing the adjustment until it works correctly.

If you don't find a bolt as described, then lucky you, you've got the setup with the adjustment down at the transmission end of the rod. You still need to do the same thing, but it's more of a nuisance.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:04 pm 
Offline
3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
Quote:
Find the rod that runs down to the transmission. Near the top of it, a few inches downward-rearward from where it connects to the bellcrank on the bracket bolted to the manifolds, you should see a bolt. Loosen it and you'll be able to shorten (push rod toward front of car) or lengthen (pull rod toward rear of car) it. You want to lengthen it. Keep track of the original position and make it…say…about an inch longer. That's probably too much, but we're doing first-step diagnosis here. Tighten the bolt back down so the rod is clamped in the new, longer position. Go for a drive. Anything different about how the trans works? If you've got opposite problems now (holds 1st gear way too long, holds 2nd gear way too long, kicks down if you sneeze at the gas pedal) then back off the rod adjustment about halfway. Keep finessing the adjustment until it works correctly.

If you don't find a bolt as described, then lucky you, you've got the setup with the adjustment down at the transmission end of the rod. You still need to do the same thing, but it's more of a nuisance.
Just looked at it after work, adjustment is down at the transmission end. I'll look at it tomorrow. Thanks for the help!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:46 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
So the kickdown adjustment was fully compressed - I let it out about halfway (3/4 of an inch) and we'll see if that fixes my problem. The kickdown wasn't even being used unless I was at 90% throttle or more, something I try not do regularly while driving around in a city.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:25 pm 
Offline
3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
Alright, so it's a huge improvement over the way it drove before. It does hold second a bit long on the hills so I'll have to shorten the linkage a little. One issue I've noticed is that at some point along the way, the car will just decide that it no longer wants to downshift when coming to a stop. Once fully stopped it'll go back to first, but it will stop downshifting to second at ~25mph.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:47 am 
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Board Sponsor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:02 pm
Posts: 1847
Location: Waterloo, Iowa
Car Model: '23 T-bucket
Quote:
The kickdown wasn't even being used unless I was at 90% throttle or more, something I try not do regularly while driving around in a city.
*********************************************************

I'm sorry, but it's "something you try not to do regularly while driving around in a city"? :shock: If I may be so bold, I recommend you never try to use 90% throttle while in the city. That's a good way to get red and blue lights behind you, with rather unforgiving, armed fellows looking to teach you a lesson and take a bunch of your money.

Just sayin'.

Otherwise, good on ya for figuring the kickdown out. Just a bit more tweeking, and you'll be much happier with it's driveability.
Now, I suggest that trans does have a shortened life, judging from your first post, saying it sat with water in it, then got ran dry and locked up. There had to have been some damage from those two events. You're probably running on borrowed time.

Roger


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:18 am 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24763
Location: North America
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Quote:
If I may be so bold, I recommend you never try to use 90% throttle while in the city. That's a good way to get red and blue lights behind you, with rather unforgiving, armed fellows looking to teach you a lesson and take a bunch of your money.
Not in a worn-out, heavy, late-production A-body with 0-60 times measured in terms of "probably sometime toward the end of this week", it isn't. It's more like a means of trying to avoid getting eaten from behind.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:14 pm 
Offline
3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 pm
Posts: 81
Car Model: 1975 Plymouth Duster
Quote:
Quote:
If I may be so bold, I recommend you never try to use 90% throttle while in the city. That's a good way to get red and blue lights behind you, with rather unforgiving, armed fellows looking to teach you a lesson and take a bunch of your money.
Not in a worn-out, heavy, late-production A-body with 0-60 times measured in terms of "probably sometime toward the end of this week", it isn't. It's more like a means of trying to avoid getting eaten from behind.
This all the way. Although I get to drive through Burien, so the average speed is usually 10-15mph below the speed limit.

The car also has some issues with misfiring at idle (but not any other speed) so I'll probably make another post about that later.


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