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Lack of machine shops
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Author:  Charrlie_S [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Lack of machine shops
The machine shop I have been using for years has closed up for good. He did a temporary shutdown a few months, ago. Stopped by last week, and the place was empty and had a "for sale" sign on the fence. Went over to another shop I had heard about, that was a little further away, but had a good reputation as a Mopar shop. Talked to the owner, and was told "not taking any new work". He was recently diagnosed with cancer, and does not know enough details at this time, and wants to finish the jobs he has in house, so no one gets stung. That leaves only one shop in the area, and they are a "Production rebuilder", and only does custom work as a "fill in" and will not give a completion date. You could be waiting months.
Author:  slantzilla [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Most of the "little guy" shops around here are gone too. There's just not enough money to be made to support enough help to keep them going. :cry:

I pretty much used Mike for everything, he's retired too.

Rhyne, Book, and Opel are the big ones here, and all do excellent work. You have to pay, but your stuff comes back ready to go.
Author:  ProCycle [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
There's just way less demand for automotive machine shops than there was decades ago. Engines are made better, last longer and often aren't worth the cost of repair like they used to be. Look for machine shops that cater to the boating market. They have not seen the same kind of declines as the auto market has.
Author:  volaredon [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
Most of the "little guy" shops around here are gone too. There's just not enough money to be made to support enough help to keep them going. :cry:

I pretty much used Mike for everything, he's retired too.

Rhyne, Book, and Opel are the big ones here, and all do excellent work. You have to pay, but your stuff comes back ready to go.
Never heard of those places. I have a/6 block that has been in machine shop jail for over 3 months over in kentland Indiana. Still waiting to hear what size OS pistons to get
Author:  volaredon [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Today's engines are "made better" I'm sorry I for one don't think so
Author:  ProCycle [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
Today's engines are "made better" I'm sorry I for one don't think so
OK, then lets say manufactured more precisely with improved materials and last many more miles than engines ever used to.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
There has been a shortage of automtive machine shops where I live for over a decade now. The one shop I used to go to is owned by a guy who has run the business since the sixties and he must be at or over 80 years old now. His two sons used to work with him but one left the shop and his other guy quit. When I last spoke to him it was down to a two man show with a three month backlog. I am lucky because I live in a big working port town, so there are boating machine shops and machine shope for semi truck and heavy equipment. The next I need custom machine work i will probably call around to boat machine shops since, technically, the slant six IS a boat motor.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
Today's engines are "made better" I'm sorry I for one don't think so
Objectively it's true. Engines now last long enough that engine wear is not the usual reason a car is taken off the road. If it were we would still have machine shops in many auto parts stores. What used to be well worn at 100k miles with normal maintenance (say a 2 bbl 318) now will easily go twice that thanks to a somewhat better base product, better fuels and lubricants and far better fuel and ignition control (Magnum 5.2). The slant has a stellar reputation because it would go much farther in miles and calendar use than its' contemporaries, but modern stuff is far better. I had a couple of 225s that broke all their top piston rings from detonation. No modern car detonates unless something is really wrong. Even the so-so Dodge 4.7 in my 2001 Dakota went 200k miles without anything unusual other than front and rear seals, an exhaust manifold and a TPS.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
The slant has a stellar reputation because it would go much farther in miles and calendar use than its' contemporaries, but modern stuff is far better.
That's exactly right. Applies to whole cars, too: the Darts and Valiants (etc) were unusually durable for their time, compared to most of what else was on the market, that's all. In actual fact, newer cars last longer than even fastidiously-maintained older cars. Partly it’s because now we have better materials and build techniques, and partly it’s because today’s fuels burn a lot cleaner and today’s lubricants do a much better anti-wear job.

Take a look and see the steady upward trend of the average age of a car on American roads. In 1969 it was 5.1 years. In 1977, the figure was 5.5 years. In 1983 it was 7.2 years. In 1990 it was 7.6 years. In 2014 it was 11.4 years. And the current figure is within a spark plug gap of 14 years.

And it's not just a longer life, it's a longer, much more trouble-free life. Think about it…how often do you see a dead car by the side of the road today vs. 25 or 35 years ago? Why do you think service stations have all been replaced by gas stations with convenience stores…? It’s because there’s no longer enough dead-car-by-the-roadside business to support much of a service station industry, and cars need much less frequent maintenance. Similar situation with machine shops; there's just a whole lot less work for 'em these days.

No, the notion of the good-ol-days when cars were sooooo much more affordable (solid, sturdy, durable, dependable…) than they are today is just not real. Objectively, new cars really are better and safer and cleaner than old ones in absolutely every functional way. It doesn’t mean we have to give up liking old ones, we just have to admit that we don’t like them because they’re better (they’re not), we like them because we like them, and that’s fine as far as it goes—but not further.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
I agree with almost everything Dan says. I think old cars are better in two ways: style and comfort. I like the way older cars look and feel much more, and I find the interiors of older cars MUCH more comfortable than newer cars. Other than that, yeah, by any other metric newer cars are exponentially "better" than older cars.
Author:  sportscarclinic [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
Today's engines are "made better" I'm sorry I for one don't think so
Too many counter examples to name. But I'll just mention one, my favorite daily driver (I have a few) is my 1998 Subaru Legacy L 2.2, 5 spd wagon. The original engine will be hitting 300k here soon, and doesn't burn or leak any noticeable amount of oil, and has more seat of the pants power than when new (I attribute this to the pistons fitting a little looser in the bore, allowing it to rev a bit quicker), faintest bit of piston slap when dead cold is the only indication of wear. I'd be interested in hearing about any American engine built 40 years ago that wouldn't need two rebuilds at that mileage to maintain the same running condition.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
Quote:
Today's engines are "made better" I'm sorry I for one don't think so
Too many counter examples to name. But I'll just mention one, my favorite daily driver (I have a few) is my 1998 Subaru Legacy L 2.2, 5 spd wagon. The original engine will be hitting 300k here soon, and doesn't burn or leak any noticeable amount of oil, and has more seat of the pants power than when new (I attribute this to the pistons fitting a little looser in the bore, allowing it to rev a bit quicker), faintest bit of piston slap when dead cold is the only indication of wear. I'd be interested in hearing about any American engine built 40 years ago that wouldn't need two rebuilds at that mileage to maintain the same running condition.

There have been numerous documented cases of a slant six going 500,000 and even 1,000,000 miles without a rebuild.
Author:  sportscarclinic [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
There have been numerous documented cases of a slant six going 500,000 and even 1,000,000 miles without a rebuild.
I don't doubt they can run that long, but how well? I've owned several '70-'80's era Volvo wagons with over 250k on the clock. Sure, they started and ran. They also consumed oil at a noticeable rate, and were clearly down on power. My abbreviated example also didn't bother to mention that newer engines can do all this while producing a fraction of the airborne pollutants, and while producing 70+ horsepower per liter. I think the argument that older engines are better is simply a non-starter.

Some will claim they're easier to work on. I don't even think that's certainly true. Compare replacing an O2 sensor, fuel pressure regulator, sensor, or clogged fuel injector (which covers 90% of FI repair) to rebuilding and tuning a carburetor. Similarly, compare replacing a timing chain with replacing a timing belt. About the only thing you can say for sure is that they are more primitive, but I have a hard time understanding how or why that's better.
Author:  GTS225 [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
But a fair bit of this doesn't help Charlie find a machine shop.
I'm thinking Proshop has tossed out a good idea.
Charlie, I don't know how close you are to the coast, but a shop catering to the marine crowd might be what you need to look for.

Roger
Author:  sportscarclinic [ Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lack of machine shops
Quote:
But a fair bit of this doesn't help Charlie find a machine shop.
Roger
Good point.

It looks like he lives in Iowa? In that case, I would certainly add machine shops specializing in tractors and farm equipment to the list. It'd be hard to imagine that they'd have lack of business due to folks opting for replacement over repair when new diesel tractor engines start at around $10k, and go seriously up from there.

Sorry, my mistake, I see Florida now. Same theory may or may not apply--not much farming in Florida--but doubtless still plenty of industrial diesel equipment.
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