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Carter Vs. Holley
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6561		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Jopapa [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Carter Vs. Holley
I know some of you like Carters a lot more than Holleys, but for what particular reasons? I know Holleys don't stay in tune very well from what a bunch of people told me before, but what else?

I had thought that the Holley 1920 was a better performing carb than the Carter BBS, but that the Carter was more reliable. Any other pros/cons between the two?

I'm just thinking of changing the 1920 on the Dart out with a remanned Carter BBS. Her folks were going to go for the new carb anyway, but I told 'em to hold off because the one on there now just needs a rebuild. Though if I can justify it, we'll go ahead and put a remanned Carter on it (it's done by Champion).

Also, any difference in linkage between the two, or can I just plug n' play?
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Carburetor Rant
Jopapa, my personal disdain for Holleys specifically revolves around the 4150/60 four barrels, 2300 two barrels and their kin. Also, I know of many people who swear by them. To me, they are sort of akin to a small block chevy: They are common and what everybody knows the best, but they are not necessarily the best engineered or most dependable.

I also think that the 4150/60's serve some people well from a strictly racing standpoint where what really matters is WOT performance. For anything to be driven regularly and for high performance, I've found that the AFB/AVS Carter (Edelbrock, same thing) works best as an all around four barrel. There is something to be said for thermoquads, too, but with their huge secondaries, I doubt they're real appropriate for most /6 applications.

Carters don't seem to me to be nearly as susceptible to minute trash in the needle/seat as Holleys do. Holleys are cantankerous, and difficult to keep in a good state of tune from my experience, as you've heard from others. With a Carter, it's set and forget. A Holley is a big heavy zinc hunk of junk (mostly), whereas the Carter is lightweight aluminum. Holleys contain cheesy damage prone o-ring seals all over the place and gaskets below fuel level. An AFB has none. You can change jets on a Carter without even making a mess. Once you've got the jets close, you can fine tune the primaries and cruising metering with rods and springs which can be accessed with two screws and the carb can remain assembled. On the AVS, the rear air door is adjusted with one adjustment screw and one set screw, both external. This is analogous to the taking the vacuum diaphragm apart on the Holley and swapping spring after spring to get the secondary opening right, which just never seems to be just right. There are no power valves to blow out on a Carter. I could go on some more, but I think I've made my point :).

Of course, no carburetor is going to meter fuel as precisely as a port injection setup, but as far as carburetors go, you can keep your Holleys for all those dime-a-dozen 350 chevies. I made the mistake of giving the Holley another chance when I went to 4bbl on my /6. Taking off the 390 Holley and bolting on the Carter was one of best decisions I made, even if I had to learn from my mistake.

"DW"

P. S. - As far as stock one barrels go, I have to say that although I've had dismal luck in the past getting stock 1920 Holleys to run right and they are real susceptible to heat soak and hot idling conditions (a real concern here in Hades where I live), I have one on a bone stock /6 in a '72 Valiant that runs just grand. I'm not touchin' that one! I have a friend that has a whole collection of bone stock /6 powered Darts and Valiants, and he prefers the BBS. I have no personal experience with the BBS. If I have a problematic 1920, it usually comes off and gets replaced by a 2bbl BBD.
Author:  Eric W [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would just stay with the Holley, its what came on the car. The Carter came on the 198 that year. If you get a reman, check some things on it first. First, open the float bowl up and make sure the float level is set correctly (top of float parallel with top of float bowl when turned upside down). Second, install at least a #60 main (the only) jet. And make sure the accelorator pump arm (the rod that connects to the cam and throttle shaft) is set in the center hole on the throttle shaft. Personally, I like the Holley, its mind numbingly easy to rebuild and service. Oh, your choke system is already set up for the 1920, as is the linkage. The set up for the two carbs just may be the same, but why risk it? The 1920 I have on my engine has been as reliable as an anvel, though the one that came on the engine couldn't be tuned. Probably rebuilt to many times.
Edit: Wow Dennis, you posted as I was writing my response! Tell me how you really feel about Holleys? :wink: I have no experience with Carters. Though many people I know with big block cars only run Carter/Edelbrock carbs. I had a Holley 2210 2bbl on my 383 and 400 I had in my '70 Fury and it was a great working carb for me. Must be a 4bbl thing....
Author:  Jopapa [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...but why risk it?
Reliability. I have yet to teach her about carbs (and my knowledge is limited for 'em), so it'd be nice for her to have something that'll stay in tune when I can't work on the car.
Author:  relic-lover [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  1bbl Carters and 4 bbl Holleys for ME!
I had good luck with my Holley 4160 600cfm 4 bbl on my 340 Duster - It was easy to rebuild, fairly easy to adjust - had no reliablity problems. So now when I want a 4 bbl I reach for a Holley 4160.

On my Valiants the Carter 1 bbls are great. They rebuild real fast and adjustments are real easy (Well the float is a pain sometimes) - They run and run with no tweaking. So when I want a 1 BBl I will take a Carter.

It is just what I got familiar with.
Author:  Eric W [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do what you want then....
Author:  Jopapa [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Do what you want then....
Aye, still weighing my options though. If I can teach her to keep that Holley in tune fairly well, I'll stick with it and just do a rebuild.

Is the jet in a 1920 even cangeable? If so, how do I find out what kind is in there now? We're at 600ft ASL, so I'd like to put the best jet for our altitude in.

Hey y'know, we WA slixers should get together one day for some drinks and car BS'in 8)
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Jopapa: Are you a teachER, or a teachEE? :wink:

"DW"
Author:  Jopapa [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Hey Jopapa: Are you a teachER, or a teachEE? :wink:

"DW"
Depends on the subject :P

I never let myself stop learning & always try to get other peoples' point of view on things.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, you gotta get seriously old like me before you can become "set in your ways" and be crochety and mean! :evil:

"DW" :lol:
Author:  Jopapa [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dern tootin'. I'm only 22 (hey 23 in two weeks though...) :P
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
...and well on yer way to becoming an old #*@&er! The "bright eyes" will wear off... Give it time! :roll:

"DW"
Who, me cynical? :o
Author:  Jopapa [ Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
...and well on yer way to becoming an old #*@&er! The "bright eyes" will wear off... Give it time! :roll:

"DW"
Who, me cynical? :o
LOL, too true. Y'know, while I'm in the military, I'll have to be meeting some of you guys as I travel around. Be cool to put some faces to the names 8)
Author:  v8440 [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Is the jet in a 1920 even cangeable?

Yep-not only is it changeable, it's the same type of jet every holley 4 barrel and 2300 2 barrel uses. Last I checked, Autozone had assortments of the jets that covered from #64 to #99 for about $20. Metering rod what? Carter who? I think carb preferences have more to do with what an individual is used to working with than any huge quality issues between the different common types. Someone who is used to working with holleys will find stuff like gaskets below the fuel level to be less problematic than someone who is used to something else and then tries to work with a holley. I personally have almost no trouble with gaskets leaking on holleys. I do hate the transfer tube o-rings on the 4160's though. I will say this-if someone wants to holler about how holleys can't be tuned well, then I respectfully submit the example of a 1050 dominator that I got to run extremely well on a stock piston low compression 440. It did everything well-didn't foul plugs, started pretty easily, ran well at the track, and got 10 mpg on the interstate. Admittedly, 10 mpg is not great mileage, but you have to remember that this was with 3.91 gears, a 10" 3500 torque converter, and a HUGE plenum M1 intake for the dominator. All that on an internally stock low compression 440 pointed to a slow-running plug-fouling disaster. Top all that off with what according to some is the world's worst non-tuneable carburetor, and what did I get? A car that I could basically forget about messing with sparkplugs on.

My point is that almost any carburetor can be faulted for something. The user's attitude toward the carburetor in question probably has at least as much to do with the results they get from it as the design of the carburetor.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Is the jet in a 1920 even cangeable?

Yep-not only is it changeable, it's the same type of jet every holley 4 barrel and 2300 2 barrel uses. Last I checked, Autozone had assortments of the jets that covered from #64 to #99 for about $20. Metering rod what? Carter who? I think carb preferences have more to do with what an individual is used to working with than any huge quality issues between the different common types. Someone who is used to working with holleys will find stuff like gaskets below the fuel level to be less problematic than someone who is used to something else and then tries to work with a holley. I personally have almost no trouble with gaskets leaking on holleys. I do hate the transfer tube o-rings on the 4160's though. I will say this-if someone wants to holler about how holleys can't be tuned well, then I respectfully submit the example of a 1050 dominator that I got to run extremely well on a stock piston low compression 440. It did everything well-didn't foul plugs, started pretty easily, ran well at the track, and got 10 mpg on the interstate. Admittedly, 10 mpg is not great mileage, but you have to remember that this was with 3.91 gears, a 10" 3500 torque converter, and a HUGE plenum M1 intake for the dominator. All that on an internally stock low compression 440 pointed to a slow-running plug-fouling disaster. Top all that off with what according to some is the world's worst non-tuneable carburetor, and what did I get? A car that I could basically forget about messing with sparkplugs on.

My point is that almost any carburetor can be faulted for something. The user's attitude toward the carburetor in question probably has at least as much to do with the results they get from it as the design of the carburetor.
And often, that is directly related to the design of the carb. ...try changing those jets on a Holley without making a mess/fire hazzard. You're not familiar with a metering rod because that parameter can't even be adjusted on a Holley without modifications. I don't agree with you on carbs, but I'll fight for your right to run a Holley :wink: ...I'll even keep all my Alabama jokes to myself :lol:

Turn it up!!!
"DW"
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