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cross-flow slant?
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66613		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Matt K. [ Tue May 31, 2022 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  cross-flow slant?
Hi, I've been stalking this forum for the last couple months, and I recently pirated AutoCAD from my school. I have been drawing and designing this in school and at home for longer than I'd like to admit. I'll try and list out as much measurements as I know. This is just 1 cylinder. more pictures soon.

Got my base measurements off of https://www.allpar.com/threads/an-insan ... ns.229890/

Combustion chambers:
spaced 4" Cl to Cl
3.5" diameter
.69" tall
3.2765 in^3 or 53.58cc

Valves: angled 20 degrees
Intake: 1.75" diameter
.341" stem
stock length

Exhaust: 1.5" diameter
.341" stem
Stock length

Note splatter:

Uses a .875" rocker shaft and 1.6 ratio rockers

This head uses a secondary set of lifters and pushrods for better angularity for the rockers

hoping to cast it out of aluminum because racecar

This design only really works for EFI systems because the intake is on the passenger side of the head while the exhaust is by the driver's side (intended for my 75 Dart)

I took some inspiration from the m12/13 BMW engine for this setup especially with a failed turbo header idea I had

I am going to 3D print this version and take it to a machine shop to have it flow tested because I have some concerns over the intake port design

secondary lifters can rise .5" before lifting out of their cylinders

I will attach pictures when I can get them off of my school desktop computer

Looking for any suggestions or critiques or insight

Attachments:
File comment: Here you can see in this cutaway the secondary pushrod and lifter. you can also see the spark plug tube.
Fantabulous Inari-Esboo (4).png
Fantabulous Inari-Esboo (4).png [ 143.63 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
File comment: top-down view of the head
Swanky Wluff (3).jpg
Swanky Wluff (3).jpg [ 59.18 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
File comment: crosscut showing the intake on the right and the exhaust on the left
Swanky Wluff.jpg
Swanky Wluff.jpg [ 49.12 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
File comment: corner view
Swanky Wluff (2).jpg
Swanky Wluff (2).jpg [ 66.32 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
File comment: cut corner view
slant (2).jpg
slant (2).jpg [ 38.7 KiB | Viewed 2677 times ]
Author:  GregCon [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Well....looks nice. But I think it's a case of something that makes sense when you draw it but the details end up dragging you down and kills it.

Then......I'm guessing $250K to produce the first casting. Then....time to start machining....

What this project needs is Brad Pitt. With his financial backing, it could happen.
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Welcome to the site and nice project. Hard to predict how hard it will be to do the whole thing, and it will cost some $$, but what the heck! Let us know how the flow tests go.

Cheers,
Lou
Author:  kesteb [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
CNC Dude has said on another site, that it would take $100,000 just for the patterns. Actually creating a head would be extra. And he owns a foundry, so he should know.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Thu Jun 02, 2022 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
I know nothing about nothing and won't be able to afford one anyway, but from the drawing it looks like a pretty bad angle from the secondary lifter to the push rod ??
Author:  ProCycle [ Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Looks that way to me too. There's going to be a tremendous side load on those secondary lifters. A lot of lobe lift will be lost due to the geometry.
Author:  DadTruck [ Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
You certainly have put a lot of hard work into this.
But if you intend to add water jackets you need to do that before finalizing the port shape and size.
Getting a water jacket that has a shape that is manufacturable as a core and that has the capacity to functionally address the heat from the combustion process has to be considered in the design of the port arms as the water jacket is the outside wall of the intake and exhaust ports.

Basically the section views that show the port arm shape are so close to the combustion deck, I don’t see a way to get a water jacket in there or around the valve seats.
Author:  Tim Keith [ Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
The Toyota 2TC/3TC is a pushrod "hemi" that also has the camshaft on the passenger side. These are smaller motors but they can be bored to 3.50-inch. You might take a look at how Toyota did it, you could probably reuse the Toyota rocker arms. A T series head design on a 170 slant six would be pretty sweet. The push rods are splayed towards the width of the cylinder so the ports have the center area - a detail that always twisted the spacial imagination of my brain. It might work with a slant six.

One day when I was at the PNP, two men came over to observe one of these motors I was pondering. One of them claimed that with a turbo his drag motor makes almost 800 horsepower. He was probably exaggerating. These motors are popular nostalgia motors in Latin America - 600 hp seems to be in the ball park for a race motor, with 175 - 200 hp not uncommon for a modified dailydriver. They only made like 75 hp stock.
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Matt K, looks like a cool project! I bet the smaller Slants like the 170's could really be a higher winder with an OHC cylinder head. There has also been a lot of advances in machining techniques in the last few years that has allowed a billet head to now be machined with a water jacket. Eliminating the quandary of how to get water circulation with billet heads. So that can almost eliminate the need for creating casting patterns and provide a completed machined cylinder head for about the same cost as casting one. Much faster also, from a few days for a billet head versus 6 months or more to create patterns, have the heads cast and then machining them. And the same is true for intake manifolds, machined billet intakes can now be made without having to create patterns and casting them, which is much faster and more economical.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Quote:
So that can almost eliminate the need for creating casting patterns and provide a completed machined cylinder head for about the same cost as casting one. Much faster also, from a few days for a billet head versus 6 months or more to create patterns, have the heads cast and then machining them
So maybe someone will make a head after all? :D :D
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Rick, these newer techniques can allow anyone with even a manual mill to create a billet water jacketed cylinder head with relative ease. So yes, the possibility for someone or multiple persons to create custom cylinder heads is much easier to obtain if they simply choose to.
Author:  DadTruck [ Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
a lot of advances in machining techniques in the last few years that has allowed a billet head to now be machined with a water jacket.
these newer techniques can allow anyone with even a manual mill to create a billet water jacketed cylinder head with relative ease.

CNC-Dude,, sounds interesting, please post a link to an article or trade publication that provides validity to that claim..
thanks
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Well actually, it's a concept Dart has been doing for quite a while that started with them creating a billet LS cylinder head. It's a better spin on the 2 piece cylinder head idea that has been around for some time. Instead of splitting the cylinder head in half, like the original 2 pc head design required. You create the head as a solid, and then on the deck surface, you mill a water jacket around all the combustion chambers and then weld or insert a plate to seal it by welding or sealers.

https://www.enginelabs.com/features/pri ... -overview/
Author:  Matt K. [ Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Been doing a lot of thinking and I sort of have a list of things that I will change so heres the list of problems and solutions but also problems that I need help with

1. No coolant passages -> need to redesign the ports to give space

2. Lifter side load -> I want to use a lifter retainer that can be either bolted to the bottom of the head or lowered into the pushrod valley https://dbautomotiveplus.com/product/gm ... -set-of-4/ like these but much deeper

3. I think that since i will drop the sec lifters down I can open up the intake port and make it more circular instead of cathedral like, giving me more vertical space for coolant passages and cleaner air flow

4. Does the coolant flow from the holes around the cylinders to the two rear holes or do they flow in the opposite direction?

5. Tim Keith, thank you

6. How thick are the coolant walls?

7. How much lighter is the weisco piston + k1 rods ass. than a stock piston and rod ass. just wondering?

my lifter placement is wrong by a country mile, can someone find me the measurements in the attached picture

Attachments:
pls help.png
pls help.png [ 16.71 KiB | Viewed 2304 times ]
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: cross-flow slant?
Several bullet points that seem to always be overlooked when this topic pops up regarding OHC cylinder heads. One, how are you going to address the original cam tunnel in the block? Since the cam(s) are being relocated to the top of the engine, how are you going to block off oil flow that would go to the original camshaft? How will you drive the oil pump and distributor since they are driven by the camshaft in the block? And then, there are the complimentary items that will be required such as timing gears and chain or belt and likely chain and belt tensioner that will now be required along with a new timing cover to enclose the new chain/belt? The cylinder head is really just a small portion of the whole package to make the cylinder head function. Good project though, but keep plugging along.....
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