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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2026 12:21 am 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2026 11:31 pm
Posts: 6
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
Hey all I'm new here and I'm struggling to figure out what's wrong. I have a 63' Plymouth valiant with the stock 170 /six it is a 4dr V200. I wanted to upgrade the front brakes to disc brakes so I got the kit from pirate jack. I ordered the 5x4 sbp kit because I wanted to keep the 5x4 and also only have to have a single spare tire.

So anyhow, I ordered 4 wheels from Coker tire I got the wheel vintiques 63 series OE Chrysler wheels the 15x7 5x4 with the 4.25 backspace to clear the new disc brakes in the front. I got tires mounted so I could swap out the 13's and actually start working on the front brake conversion but when I tried to put those new wheels on they will not seat.

They fit over the hub just fine but there is stamped ridge/ring inside the wheel (not the ridge around the bore itself but a larger ring) that seems to be making contact with the drum first on the back and even on the front with the new spindles/rotors won't seat On the rear the hub won't protrude through because the ridge is what's making contact, and on the front the same thing is happening but the hub does stick through but the studs are way too short.

I thought wheel spacers but they won't solve the issue they will just push it out further. I'll attach a photo if I can for reference you can see rust/dirt transfer on the ridge I'm talking about that Is making contact first.

I have no idea what these wheels would possibly work on but it's sure not a 63' valiant with the stock rear drums or front disc brake conversion that's for sure.I basically threw away 1k on wheels/tires since I got the tires mounted without testing the fit first...lesson learned but I made the assumption based on all the information I had that those would fit but they don't.

Does anyone know what will fit? 14's sound like they might be too tight on the pirate jack upgrade so I went with 15's. I'd ideally like to find wheels that are 15x7 5x4 with the 4.25 backspace but everything keeps taking me back to the wheel vintiques that don't work...I'm also afraid I'll end up with the same problem again....please help?


Attachments:
File comment: Notice the rust transfer on the ridge/ring
Messenger_creation_6C477742-B323-4266-B816-33EFB011A9BF.jpeg
Messenger_creation_6C477742-B323-4266-B816-33EFB011A9BF.jpeg [ 218.91 KiB | Viewed 766 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2026 3:59 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:00 pm
Posts: 3132
Location: kankakee IL
Car Model: 80 volare, 78 fury 2 dr, 85 D150
Nevermind it's still early


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2026 6:00 pm 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
Posts: 215
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
I'm not saying anything, other than, is this as obvious as it looks like it is?

'Cause I feel that this was meant to be posted 6 days from now.

– Eric


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2026 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2026 11:31 pm
Posts: 6
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
I'm confused, if you think it's obvious please do share why, because I assure you I have no idea why these do not fit. I didn't come here for fun to post and ask for answers to something obvious. I did tons of research before I bought them, and tons more after trying to figure out what's wrong that they don't and what I should get instead. I am here beacuse I don't know anything about wheels and tires. All I can tell you is they don't seat and don't fit and would not be safe to use. Maybe I explained it wrong and it's not obvious to you what I'm trying to explain, but it's not obvious to me what the problem is so please do share?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 3:46 am 
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TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
Posts: 215
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
Looking at your photo, I see a ring of abrasion and rust transfer around the ridge of the rim, just outside of the circle of lug holes.

There is no good reason for there to be such a ring in that location, as that area does not bear against anything, and is generally somewhat protected from the environment by the hubcap (wheel cover to you purists).

Which is to say, the surface in the photograph is the outside surface.
The surface not pictured in the photograph is the surface that goes against the brake drum.

The person who put this wheel on the lug stud and tried to get the nuts to thread put it on backwards.
If the photo were zoomed out a bit, we would be able to see the filler valve stem on this side, which would prove that this is the outside of the wheel.

Which is why this appears to be a troll post.

– Eric


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 12:54 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24924
Location: North America
Car Model:
Oohboy. This is a yucky situation.

Wheel Vintiques' products aren't what they used to be – I'm seeing reports all over the relevant parts of the web that the Chinese-made wheels they're bringing in now are nowhere near the quality of the US-made ones they used to sell. I see some alarming details in your pic of the wheel hub area here. This what you're showing us is indeed the inboard side of the wheel, meant to contact the hub – just look at these factory wheels and that's pretty evident. I would want to see a pic of the outboard side of your wheel hub before making a final judgement, but odds are pretty good I would declare the wheel unfit for purpose.

More broadly, it sounds as if the research you did may have led you astray, or failed to get you fully informed. Where and how did you do your research?

Leaving aside fit issues for the moment, you are about to put much bigger wheels and tires on the car than its originals, which will throw much bigger loads on every part of the steering linkage. It will also throw off your speedometer/odometer calibration and your automatic transmission's shifting behaviour (if yours is an automatic) – both of those can be corrected, though the speedometer/odometer could be difficult. Bigger tires will also significantly slow down your car's acceleration, and a stock or near-stock 170-powered car doesn't have much of that to spare.

I know nothing about this Pirate Jack outfit or their kits. Never heard of 'em. That doesn't necessarily mean they're crummy, but I tend to be skeptical because there is so much crap on the market, all hyped as a primo, best-in-class, № 1 best 'upgrade'. It appears their kits use a '73-up Mopar-type caliper (which one, with 2.6" bore, or 2.75"?), which I have no objection to. No idea what rotor they might be using. I do see a few clues around their website that would make me go "H'mmmmm…maybe not" if I were in the market for a disc brake conversion package.

(even here on this board, where the signal:noise ratio is better than usual, there are people who hand out advice they aren't qualified to give, and/or who feel compelled to make pointless remarks without saying anything productive, and start arguments for no grownup reason. Don't let 'em drive you away, just ignore 'em; they're beneath your dignity.)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 5:18 pm 
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1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2026 11:31 pm
Posts: 6
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
Hey thanks for actually taking the time to respond, I truly appreciate it. Let me start off with my research. I scrolled through/searched various forums this one included the old one, forAbodiesOnly, etc. I watched tons of YouTube videos of people upgrading 63,64 Valiants and other early a body mopars etc. to the disc brakes using pirate jack kits and other kits. Additionally all the parts I was looking at I read the specs and tried to find instances of people using them and also the specs for all of them for example pirate jack states " ***Fit's Most 14" Wheels. This kit will not fit the skinniest or most narrow 14" wheel that Mopar ever made. The measurement requirement are a minimum 13.25" overall inside diameter with at least a minimum of 4" backspacing. Anything less than that will not allow the calipers to clear the wheel." Also in the documentation that came with the disc brake kit it says "Does NOT work with Cragar SST, Steely, or Year One Rally Rims.

I searched for the parts I thought I needed based on the requirements listed for the piratejack kit and recommendations from other on threads/forums/videos and then cross referenced that they should work together. I used some AI to help actually find the websites selling the parts I bought and compare prices.

This is the link to the exact pirate jack kit I purchased:
https://piratejack.net/1962-1972-mopar- ... 0PjHxuCsOo

These are the wheels I purchased ofc they are on sale now too to add insult to injury: https://cokertire.com/15x7-oe-chrysler- ... gKV2PD_BwE

I went and took more pictures of the wheels I'll try to attach them to this response.

Anyhow thanks again for actually not just thinking I was making a joke or being a troll, it's really not funny and you get a sinking feeling when you spend that much money only to find out your screwed.


Attachments:
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 7:04 pm 
Offline
TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
Posts: 215
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
I am sorry.

Seeing photos of both sides of your wheels, I was clearly wrong, and I apologize for impugning your reputation.

When I saw your photo, I thought I was looking at this side of your wheel, which differs from standard factory wheels (I'm not familiar with all of the aftermarket permutations out there):
Attachment:
IMG_0568.jpeg
IMG_0568.jpeg [ 182.27 KiB | Viewed 607 times ]

But really, your photo was of this side:
Attachment:
IMG_0567.jpeg
IMG_0567.jpeg [ 182.49 KiB | Viewed 607 times ]

I would ask whether it is possible to determine what, exactly, is causing your wheels to stand off from your drums (and also whether they sit the same way on the hubs you got with the brake kit).
If they simply don't fit, Coker is a reputable company, and I would expect them to make this right, as they represented these wheels as fitting these cars.

You'd be out the $100 to swap the tires onto different rims, though.

I'm afraid I don't have any great ideas otherwise.

– Eric


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 7:47 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24924
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
I scrolled through/searched various forums this one included the old one, forAbodiesOnly, etc.
Good places to start, though even in the specialty forums there's a wide range of advice quality.
Quote:
I watched tons of YouTube videos
Much less reliable.
Quote:
I used some AI
This was unwise. Virtually guaranteed to mislead you and lead you astray and wind you up in bad places.
Quote:
I searched for the parts I thought I needed based on the requirements listed for the piratejack kit and recommendations from other on threads/forums/videos and then cross referenced that they should work together.
Your heart was in the right place, but it sounds as if you didn't filter all those pieces of advice you got through any kind of a knowledge strainer before putting them together to make your plan. It would've been a good idea to post – here and/or on FABO – and say something like "I'm thinking of buying [this kit, these wheels, these tires] for my '63 Valiant, anyone see problems or have a better idea?". Yes, there are already a million threads, but big parts of the advice can go stale. Parts that were available and worthy 5 or 10 or 20 years ago aren't necessarily available or worthy today, for example.

Your situation (not your behaviour, just your situation) is reminding me of someone we had on here some years back, who had in mind to build a high-performance Slant-6 engine for his Barracuda. He read a whole lot of web pages and magazine articles and plucked the bits that sounded cool from each source, then combined them into his shopping list and recipe. We tried (oh, how we did try!) to get him to tap the brakes and think things through, and take advantage of others' experience and expertise, but he was sure he had done his "research" and his car was gonna be a screamer. It was a disaster; he poured mega-money into it and it ran poorly. He decided it was because the Slant-6 is a stupid, useless engine that can't be made to run well, and last we heard of 'im, he had big plans to build a big V8 instead. Probably the same way, and probably with the same result.
Quote:
I went and took more pictures of the wheels I'll try to attach them to this response.
It worked; I see 'em. As I suspected, I would strongly un-recommend using these. For one thing, the lug holes appear to be just crudely stamped. There is no cone-shaped seat for the lug nuts. This is ugly, nasty, not acceptable, quite dangerous. Refer back to that pic I linked up above, of the factory wheels – see how the lug holes have a thicker, cone-shaped seat about them, not just carelessly-punched plain holes.
Quote:
it's really not funny and you get a sinking feeling when you spend that much money only to find out your screwed.
No, it is not funny at all. It sucks, bigtime. You've got a genuinely good idea in mind, put better brakes on a car you want to drive in today's traffic. That's definitely on the list of stuff you really ought to do. But the devil is in the details, and it looks like he done stabbed you with his pitchfork. :(

Now: what instead? Well, Scarebird's kits have a good track record. They use inexpensive, readily-available late-model parts. You'd need to come up with your own master cylinder and proportioning valve; those are readily available and inexpensive, as well. Linked kit is for cars with 10" drums – they mention the part number of the kit for cars with 9" drums, but if that one's not available for some reason, you could get the 10" kit and you'd need to source a set of 10"-drum spindles with a parts-wanted ad.

Or, Stainless Steel Brakes offers a highly reputable changeover very similar to the stock '66-'72 disc brakes. Here again, needs 10"-drum spindles and you'd have to supply your own master cylinder and prop valve, etc. This is a much more expensive setup, and the parts it uses are also more expensive and less available.

Both of those kits will fit thoughtfully-chosen stock-type 14" wheels, which would mean no overload of the steering linkage, no destruction of the car's ride quality or acceleration, availability of stock-ish wheel covers so the car doesn't look hacked, no worries about rear wheel/fender clearance, etc.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Image


Last edited by SlantSixDan on Sat Mar 28, 2026 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 8:11 pm 
Offline
1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2026 11:31 pm
Posts: 6
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
Quote:
I am sorry.

Seeing photos of both sides of your wheels, I was clearly wrong, and I apologize for impugning your reputation.

When I saw your photo, I thought I was looking at this side of your wheel, which differs from standard factory wheels (I'm not familiar with all of the aftermarket permutations out there):

IMG_0568.jpeg


But really, your photo was of this side:

IMG_0567.jpeg


I would ask whether it is possible to determine what, exactly, is causing your wheels to stand off from your drums (and also whether they sit the same way on the hubs you got with the brake kit).
If they simply don't fit, Coker is a reputable company, and I would expect them to make this right, as they represented these wheels as fitting these cars.

You'd be out the $100 to swap the tires onto different rims, though.

I'm afraid I don't have any great ideas otherwise.

– Eric
Thanks, the issue is that outer convex ring around the outside of the bolt holes on the rear that is hitting the drum face, nothing but that ring makes contact since it sits up higher, which creates a space on the back the stud are long enough but the hub does protrude through the center bore because of the gap it would fit but it doesn't make it to the center bore because of that ring acting like a standoff.

Coker might take them back but probably not without a restocking fee because I had tires mounted on them already (my dumb mistake for assuming they'd fit given the specs listed. Lesson learned.) so even if they did I'm sure the shipping+restocking+getting the tires off wouldn't be cheap and I've already wasted enough money. I might toss them on FB marketplace or something but I don't even know what they could be used for they seem defective to me like if that convex ring was stamped the other way and was concave on the back they'd mount fine. I don't really know. though. Nothing bigger than approximately 4.5" in diameter is going to seat on that because that the ID of that convex ridge/ring.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 8:24 pm 
Offline
1 BBL (New)

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2026 11:31 pm
Posts: 6
Car Model: 1963 Plymouth Valiant
Quote:
Quote:
I scrolled through/searched various forums this one included the old one, forAbodiesOnly, etc.
Good places to start, though even in the specialty forums there's a wide range of advice quality.
Quote:
I watched tons of YouTube videos
Much less reliable.
Quote:
I used some AI
This was unwise. Virtually guaranteed to mislead you and lead you astray and wind you up in bad places.
Quote:
I searched for the parts I thought I needed based on the requirements listed for the piratejack kit and recommendations from other on threads/forums/videos and then cross referenced that they should work together.
Your heart was in the right place, but it sounds as if you didn't filter all those pieces of advice you got through any kind of a knowledge strainer before putting them together to make your plan. It would've been a good idea to post – here and/or on FABO – and say something like "I'm thinking of buying [this kit, these wheels, these tires] for my '63 Valiant, anyone see problems or have a better idea?". Yes, there are already a million threads, but big parts of the advice can go stale. Parts that were available and worthy 5 or 10 or 20 years ago aren't necessarily available or worthy today, for example.

Your situation (not your behaviour, just your situation) is reminding me of someone we had on here some years back, who had in mind to build a high-performance Slant-6 engine for his Barracuda. He read a whole lot of web pages and magazine articles and plucked the bits that sounded cool from each source, then combined them into his shopping list and recipe. We tried (oh, how we did try!) to get him to tap the brakes and think things through, and take advantage of others' experience and expertise, but he was sure he had done his "research" and his car was gonna be a screamer. It was a disaster; he poured mega-money into it and it ran poorly. He decided it was because the Slant-6 is a stupid, useless engine that can't be made to run well, and last we heard of 'im, he had big plans to build a big V8 instead. Probably the same way, and probably with the same result.
Quote:
I went and took more pictures of the wheels I'll try to attach them to this response.
It worked; I see 'em. As I suspected, I would strongly un-recommend using these. For one thing, the lug holes appear to be just crudely stamped. There is no cone-shaped seat for the lug nuts. This is ugly, nasty, not acceptable, quite dangerous. Refer back to that pic I linked up above, of the factory wheels – see how the lug holes have a thicker, cone-shaped seat about them, not just carelessly-punched plain holes)
Quote:
it's really not funny and you get a sinking feeling when you spend that much money only to find out your screwed.
No, it is not funny at all. It sucks, bigtime. You've got a genuinely good idea in mind, put better brakes on a car you want to drive in today's traffic. That's definitely on the list of stuff you really ought to do. But the devil is in the details, and it looks like he done stabbed you with his pitchfork. :(

Now: what instead? Well, Scarebird's kits have a good track record. They use inexpensive, readily-available late-model parts. You'd need to come up with your own master cylinder and proportioning valve; those are readily available and inexpensive, as well. Linked kit is for cars with 10" drums – they mention the part number of the kit for cars with 9" drums, but if that one's not available for some reason, you could get the 10" kit and you'd need to source a set of 10"-drum spindles with a parts-wanted ad.

Or, Stainless Steel Brakes offers a highly reputable changeover very similar to the stock '66-'72 disc brakes. Here again, needs 10"-drum spindles and you'd have to supply your own master cylinder and prop valve, etc. This is a much more expensive setup, and the parts it uses are also more expensive and less available.

Both of those kits will fit thoughtfully-chosen stock-type 14" wheels, which would mean no overload of the steering linkage, no destruction of the car's ride quality or acceleration, availability of stock-ish wheel covers so the car doesn't look hacked, no worries about rear wheel/fender clearance, etc.
Thanks for the insight, I'm kinda stuck with the kit I bought since that was about 1k as well I'm kinda stuck, I can't really afford to buy both another kit and another set of wheels. The question is what wheels are an option then if I keep the kit I already have? Or is keeping that kit not an option?

I'm afraid to buy anything else because I got burned on those wheels. I just want to get the car finished and safe to be on the road. I bought it back in 2010 with my dad we were going to fix it up together he died a few months later unexpectedly and I've held onto it all these years couldn't bring myself to do anything with it until now I decided I was finally ready.

I thought I did a lot of research because I spent several hours a night for a few weeks reading, watching comparing etc. making a list of the parts cross referencing to make sure they worked with each other and I've obviously failed.

I think part of what caught me up was wanting to keep the small bolt pattern all the way around. Anyhow, I'm going to reread your response a few times and try to decide what steps to take next and plan how I'm going to afford to fix this lol...before shipping costs shoot through the roof from current global events. Thanks for your knowledge and patience. I'm sure I'll be back with questions once I process my own idiocy.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 8:29 pm 
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Board Sponsor & SL6 Racer

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:57 pm
Posts: 9296
Location: Waynesboro, Pa.
Car Model: 65 Valiant 2Dr Post
Sorry for all your problems here! But I'd surely get rid of those if I could. I think the company should be made aware of the issue and poor build quality.
Quote:
Nothing bigger than approximately 4.5" in diameter is going to seat on that because that the ID of that convex ridge/ring.
So I don't even have any idea what they would fit on?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 8:31 pm 
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Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24924
Location: North America
Car Model:
Coker used to be a reputable company, years ago. They aren't anymore.

There's nothing stopping anyone posting whatever they might want to pretend to know, but this board has a function that lets you filter out their noise. To use it, go to the bottom of a noisemaker's post, click the [profile] button, and in the next window click add foe. From then on, whenever you're logged in on here, in place of the noisemaker's post you'll see "You are ignoring this user".

For whatever it's worth, I don't think you're an idiot. You made a mistake, that's all. It's got jagged edges because of the costs involved, but that doesn't mean you're an idiot.

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Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Sun Mar 29, 2026 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2026 9:24 pm 
Offline
Board Sponsor & Contributor

Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:39 pm
Posts: 24924
Location: North America
Car Model:
Quote:
I can't really afford to buy both another kit and another set of wheels. The question is what wheels are an option then if I keep the kit I already have? Or is keeping that kit not an option?
Well, what are this kit's hard requirements for wheel diameter, etc?
Quote:
I just want to get the car finished and safe to be on the road. I bought it back in 2010 with my dad we were going to fix it up together he died a few months later unexpectedly and I've held onto it all these years couldn't bring myself to do anything with it until now I decided I was finally ready.
Oof, that's rough to get a black eye on your first go, on a car with those kinds of attachments. :(
Quote:
I think part of what caught me up was wanting to keep the small bolt pattern all the way around.
That is a reasonable goal, and an attainable one, but there's a lot less room to manoeuvre than there was 20-30-40 years ago, because small-bolt wheel options are fewer, poorer, and more costly.

Quick friendly pointer: no need to quote the whole message you're replying to in a big block like that; it actually makes messages harder to read. If you want to reply to particular points in a post, click your cursor after the text you specifically want to quote and make sure that text starts with [quоte] and ends with [/quоte], then put your new text below that quoted text. Otherwise, just hit [Reply] instead of [Quоte] and post your text in an empty window.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

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Last edited by SlantSixDan on Sun Mar 29, 2026 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2026 4:41 am 
Offline
TBI Slant 6

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:12 am
Posts: 215
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Car Model: 1964 Dart 270 4-Door
Quote:
Coker used to be a reputable company, years ago. They aren't anymore.

Oh my goodness, how did I miss this one post from "Rat Rod AL," stating, in its entirety,
Quote:
"Last year when we went to the Coker tire/ speed shop/ car museum, the guy at the counter told us Corky sold off the tire business awhile back."

Reading through that thread, I can see that another gentleman apparently bought the same wheels and found that their stamping wasn't done completely correctly:
Quote:
"I just got a set of Wheel Vintiques 15x7 SBP from Coker and 3 of the wheels had poorly defined notches for the hubcaps and the dogdish caps wouldn't snap on securely. I didn't realize until they were mounted on the car and I tried putting the caps on. Of course they clearly state that once they are mounted you can't return them."

From your description, as I understand it, it sounds as though everything fits except for the functional thickness of the mounting surface. You could, if you wanted to, replace all of the lug studs with longer ones, which would solve that problem.
Many people do this (or half of it) to eliminate the left-hand-thread studs on the left-hand side, so it's not unheard of.

– Eric


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