My friend cannot believe that I won't swap out the Slant Six for a V-8. I would like a little respect. So, what is the most economical way to keep up with the 318? I don't even need to beat him. I'd just like to keep up enough that he will give the Slant a little respect.

Right now I have the 1bbl setup. I don't stand a chance. He has the 318 with a 2bbl. Both have auto transmissions, both are Dart Swingers.

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'71 Dart Swinger

That's a really loaded question. There's a lot more involved than just the engine: Which transmissions are you both using -- OK, I see you said you're using auto's; so, you're probably both running a 904. What's the ratio in the differential of both cars? Tire size can be a factor. Do the cars weigh the same (an option package can add 100's lbs to the weight of a car).

Here's where I might start: For not much money, you could switch to a super six intake & 2bbl or a clifford / offy 4bbl intake. I saw in the history you were looking at doing something like this before -- you can find them used, in junkyards, on ebay, or on this site. You could also put in Dutra Dual exhaust or a header; and, upgrade to a larger diameter exhaust system with a free(er) flowing muffler. These would give you a modest increase in performance.

It all depends on how much work your willing to do. You could build a full-on race engine; but, that's probably not economical...

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My truck is a Frankenstein creation
Built from the dead carcasses of others
And brought BACK TO LIFE!

Do you know what rear end gear ratio you have?
If you want to improve off the line pick-up, lower the gear ratio.

I whacked a stock 318 car with my '74 1 barrel car, but it had the 3.09 1st gear in the manual tranny and a 3.21 rear gear...

A good combination of parts would make power and keep mileage, but the $$$ might be prohibitive depnding on your budget and determination.

A good start is the super six 2 barrel, opening up the exhaust a bit (if you still have the small single 'weenie' pipe. Those should gain some power and might also give you a couple more miles to the gallon(the one thing you can give the V-8 guy a bad time about is passing him at the pump...).
With that in place the next things to tackle are the six's pension for wanting more revs to make power, so a gear change from 2.76's to something like 3.23's would make things better (if you had the A-833OD manual something like 3.73's would really make an eye opener...).

You can also mess with the timing a bit, there are a few posts from a couple weeks back on changing the slots in your distributor. With a 1 barrel this won't be as nice as a car with more carb, more rear gearing, but if those are in place more aggressive timing curve can help out a bit too...

Don't forget the simple things like adjusting your valves (you might search for the post where doc detailed out setting a tighter/looser lash to cheat your lift slightly...), maybe running more advance (but you'll pay for it at the pump by having to run plus/super...)...


Personally I've put about $2000 into my engine(rebuild) and gearing(2.94's to 3.55's), and I'm happy with it, it has the get up and go of a warmed over 318, but still has good mileage, and it puts the torque to the ground immediately instead of burning rubber all over the place like the brand-x guy down the block....

good luck,

-D.Idiot

Is it worth it to put a 4bbl on a stock 225?

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'71 Dart Swinger

perhaps if we knew how much you wanted to spend
for example I have well over $4000 in my drive train and I should be looking at 270 hp or better(I hope) for basics though a 4bbl intake dutra duals or header 2.5 inch pipe oh 390 cfm carb and if you got it spend for a 2400rpm stallconverter and 3.55 gears
Its always easier spending some one elses money isnt it?

Its always easier spending some one elses money isnt it

Ain't that the truth...

A 4bbl on a totally stock motor... Is it worth it? Well you'll see some improvement; but, you'll actually never (well, barely) open up the secondaries. We've had some discussions recently (maybe it was on slantsix.com) where we talked about this: a stock 225 /6 @ 5000rpm will only flow in the (and I'm rounding heavily) 250cfm range. The smallest 4bbls are 390-400cfm.

If you're planning to do other upgrades in the future, It might be worth it.

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My truck is a Frankenstein creation
Built from the dead carcasses of others
And brought BACK TO LIFE!

Allright folks, I think I will just forget it. That's not what I bought the car for. I bought it for economy, reliability, and ease of maintenance. I am pretty happy with the performance in stock condition. It's not a race car, it's my daily driver. So, I have plans to make the car a better daily driver.

I will upgrade the car slowly over time. The upgrades will be in this order:
Disc Brakes up front
Super Six
Dutra Dual exhuast
Manual OD Trans.
Lower geared rear
It will probably take a couple years to get that far. I'm happy with the car now, so time doesn't bother me. If I still can't keep up with a 318, I never will. I'll still have a smile on my face every time I get in the car.

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'71 Dart Swinger

Here's some food for thought to chew on...

I have a 1974 Space Duster that at the time had 100K on the clock manual 3 speed and 3.21 rear gear...pretty peppy, but the rpms sound 'high' at 65 mph.... This car 'walked' a stock 318 auto '72 Duster out of a stop light and left him by a car length (boy the driver was trying to get that 2.76 rear going hard too...and his girlfriend asked what I had...I smiled said 'slant six' and whopped him to the next light)....
At the time I was doing lots of highway travel and got 20.5 mpg...I decided to 'splurge' a couple hundred for a larger pipe and muffler (2.5")...
At that point I picked up some more 'seat of the pants' go power and went up to 21.3-21.5 mpg.... the rear developed a bearing noise that necessitated a swap to a 2.94 geared axle...my 'pep' remained the same, my top end was a bit better, and the mileage stayed the same...that rear grenaded...in goes a 2.76 rear....off the line pep is gone (I could burn the 9 1/4" disk all day trying to get it to 'move'), top end is really good ('whine' comes in at 85mph now), and the mileage is the same 21.3-21.5....

Oddly, I have my '76 that I rebuilt with a 252 Comp Cam, stock valves, 'street port job'/clean-up the flash, .020 over....with a Super Six and 2.94's it had a nice top end (somewhere north of 90 mph....acceleration went 'flat' somewhere after 65 mph, but the mill would just keep pulling...), it also used a 2.25" single pipe, and had the A-833 OD in it....21.5 mpg..... so I went to 3.55's in the rear....stayed at 21.5 mpg, but man, the 1st and 2nd gears really came alive....Eventually I figured it needed to breathe so I took the plunge to the HyperPak intake and Dutra Duals (if you go for a 4 barrel, try the Offy and a 390 cfm carb...you can read the long trial by fires of my Hpak install), my mileage is down to 19mpg ( 17 if I can't keep my foot out of it...) but the 'punch' and throttle response is great....

You'll catch him soon...I'm already making stock big block guys look twice when I 'buzz' by them...

-D.Idiot

One thing you gotta remember, a truly stock 318 isn't a real ball of fire either.

I pounded a couple with my Duster with a Super six and header.

With my good motor in my '66 Valiant I was whacking the crap out of stock Dakota R/T's.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

Slantzilla, exactly what I was thinking. If his car is stock and I made a few upgrades, I should be able to keep up. Super-Six and a header...what gear ratio did you have in the rear?

I'm not going to mess with the rearend until I get the discs up front. I'll have to change it then to match the bolt pattern. How low can I go with the three speed auto? I want to still be able to drive 70 mph without feeling like the car is going to explode.

Thanks for the encouragement.

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'71 Dart Swinger

DusterIdiot, I just reread your post. Thanks for the deatiled info! Sounds like 3.21 would be stretching it for me, with the three speed auto anyway. Man, I really need that OD!

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'71 Dart Swinger

RPM's with 3.55's and stock 14" tires in 'Direct' run about 2000 rpm at 45 mph... Mopar makes their car 'idle' almost at cruise (or lug), so with direct and 3.21's it might not be that bad for some people but if you've driven a mopar you are used to the flat highway 'lug-lug-lug' not the 'Bzzzzzz' of anything over 1500 rpm at cruise...


-D.Idiot

I think you confused me, but I think you're saying it would be okay? Here are a few questions. What is the tolerable RPM limit for highway cruising? I'm talking about 70 mph cruising speed. I know everyone has there own preferences, but if you're saying that a higher RPM than I'm used to is okay then I can get used to it. Do you think I would see a considerable loss in mpg's by switching to 3.21's?

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'71 Dart Swinger

I used to run 3.23's and mileage was about the same as 2.76's. The Slant has a reasonably flat torque curve so the extra RPM's don't hurt too much. (I normally run 3.91's and drive it everywhere).

I used to have 3.23's in the Duster w/the SS and header too.

_________________
Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.