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| major Problem https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8482 |
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| Author: | 70valiant [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | major Problem |
Ok here is my problem. This morning I went out and started my 70Valiant, it started right up. I noticed that the stereo memory had been erased, ok I reprogrammed every thing. Once it was warmed up and ready to go I got my son in the car closed the door behind him and the car stalled. Now every thing is dead! No lights nothing inside the car works at all. The battery is putting out 13 volts, and I’m even getting power to the fuse just before the large red wire that goes through the bulk head. All the fuses in the fuse box are good I’m really at a loss. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Help please! Phil |
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| Author: | '65 Dutch Dart [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm thinking and thinking,... If you have no luck with this: Hope this helps, maybe someone has other ideas? Good luck! |
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| Author: | 70valiant [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thank you, for replying. I went and rechecked where the fusible link is supposed to be and the PO seems to have replaced it with an inline fuse that went next to one of the ends so I could not see the fuse was bad. One end of the fuse is really corroded as well. I replaced the fuse and now The Green Machine has power everywhere. I guess I should go and get a 30AMP fusible link and replace the fuse with like what should be there? Phil |
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| Author: | Pete Dumbleton [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Phil, I was just looking at the photo of your engine compartment -- Is that the actual fuel line coming in across the manifolds? Don't you get vapor lock from all that heat? Or is that just a fuel filter on the carb hose that used to go to the purge valve on the vapor cannister? |
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| Author: | steponmebbbboom [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
That's typical stock routing of the fuel line. It's hard to tell from that perspective, but that line probably is about 4 or 5" away from the manifold. It comes out quite a bit. |
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| Author: | 70valiant [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The fuel line is at least 3 inches from the header, I have never had a problem with vapor lock. It was running poorly off idle. I could not give it any gas until it was over 1100rpm. I adjusted the pump shot no improvement, played with the mixrure screws problem got worse, I finally raised the metering rods about 1/8-3/16". now from a stop at idle I can give it about 1/2 throttle untill over 1000rpm them put it to the floor. I also can get a really nice cloud of smoke if I stand on the brake, rev it up to 1200 and then let off the brake. |
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| Author: | Pete Dumbleton [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
OK, on my 82D150 with BBD, the fuel line comes up from the fuel pump, thru the filter and across the engine from the passenger side. Maybe more airflow that way until you get to the top of the engine. Also has the three-port fuel filter which helps prevent vapor lock by circulating cool gas up to the filter. |
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| Author: | ShivaDart [ Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
What wrong with using an inline fuse, it seems as though that's what modern cars use... actually it's called a fusible link but just looks like a regular fuse on steroids. Anyway, I replaced my fusible link with an inline fuse. The inline fuse kept going because of a wiring problem that took me a while to find (who would of thought that an emergency brake hitting a bare spot on a wire was the eventual cause?). The fusible link also kept blowing because by designe I couldn't get the full thing replaced and the whole wire was fried, so I drilled out a portion and used a male connector to get in there. It works, hasn't failed me since and has been tested because it's popped before, because of the emergency brake problem. I like it because it's easier to replace, but it sounded like there might be something wrong with that setup. Anyway, if the the inline fuse is bad I'll probably replace it with a modern plug-in style in-line fuse, it's so nice to be able to quickly get your car running after the fuse's popped(and you found the reason of course |
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| Author: | Pete Dumbleton [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Here's a copy of what I posted to this thread on slantsix.com: ***** Just a guess, but take a look at all the Fusible Links in the underhood wiring. On my 82D150, most of them are right there on the fender, altho one is right by the battery. They should be smooth, clean and relatively hard, with no corrosion at either end. If one of them is lumpy, soft or burnt, that's a potential culprit. Last time I needed one, the local Dodge dealer had them. You have to splice it in where the old one was (which is sometimes hard to do if it melted at a rubber boot, as I found out...). They are color-coded as to Amperage rating. I believe they are really just a down-sized link in the wiring (if you look at wiring diagram, you will see they are smaller than the wires to which they are connected), intended as a weak place in the harness or slow-blow fuse to protect the rest of the wiring without the production fuss of putting in fuse holders and fuses. I did some internet research a while back and came up with these values, but I don't recall where I got them and I certainly can't swear to them: 10g 30Amp 12g 20Amp 14g 15Amp 16g 7.5Amp It bothers me that as you increase wire size by one wire gauge step, you double the Ampacity until you get the last one -- seems like it should be 40Amp instead of 30Amp. One of my future projects is to replace the links with a panel of auto-reset breakers, like the kind used in RV stuf, like brake controllers, chargers, etc. A second possible culprit is the connection thru the bulkhead connector. I read recently somewhere on this forum that CC has a fix for bad connections that involved removing wires and connector hardware for both sides, drilling thru the connectors, feeding the wire thru from one side and splicing it to the other wire. Oops! You said you were getting power to the fuse box, so the above is not likely. Might be your ignition switch harness? Replaced mine recently and aside from pulling the steering wheel and needing ring pliers, it wasn't all that difficult. New harness/switch for my truck was about $25 at Advance or AutoZone. Dunno if you have glass fuses, but sometimes they look real good but are open on one end without looking burned. ********** The colors indicate both the gauge and the amperage on the fusible links; my service manual wiring diagram shows the gauge and color of both the fusible links and the connected wires. My fusible link blew right near the multible rubber connector from the battery, so I had to splice into the red wire on the battery side of the connector. From some research thru Yahoo a while back, it seems that all a fusible link really is is a smaller diameter wire in a larger wire run (which is all a fuse is, BTW, just that the fuse is shorter). I couldn't find out for sure, but I suspect that fusible links are more of a 'slow-blow' than 'quick acting' fuse. I recall that the 93 Saturn had two fuse panels, one on the fender (about where the fusible links are on my truck) and one inside the passenger compartment near the driver's right foot. The fender fuse panel had the really big blade (ATC/ATO) fuses in it, so I would bet they are the fusible link replacements. BTW, I have seen three sizes of the blade fuses. The Saturn had the monster size (aka Maxi) out on the fender and the mini size inside, while my 82D150 has the medium size inside. I think some amperages are available in all sizes. I dunno the electrical differences (if any) between the various physical sizes, nor do I know the difference between the ATO and ATC types, unless they are just proprietary labels by Littel and Buss. If you do a Yahoo search for "auto fuse atc ato" you will come up with a bunch of sources for fuses and holders. Here's a link with pics of various fuses: http://www.douglasproducts.com/AMT/fuse_page.htm |
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| Author: | steponmebbbboom [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Sounds like a question for SlantSix Dan My belief is that a fusible link allows temporary periods of high current, like when all accessories are on and the turn signal is blinking, but does not allow a sustained high load. I replaced my fusible link with one from a Ford, including the rubber tag with the gauge stamped on it. I wouldnt think of replacing the fusible link with a conventional fuse. If a regular fuse was sufficient for that application, Chrysler would have used one. I could also replace the link with a slow blow fuse, but why? Fusible links are easy enough to splice in, and are more readily available than a slow blow auto fuse, that's for sure. Motormite fusible links are right on the shelf. If you were to replace the fusible links with auto reset circuit breakers, youd have to ensure that they had a slow response time, or at tripping loads they would cycle continuously and buzz. |
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| Author: | Craig [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fusable link size ... here it is... |
The information I got from somewhere ( My Chrysler service manual??) is that the fusible link gauge size is 4 numbers smaller than the wire it protects. The idea is that the fusible link will melt before the main wire it protects. 6ga main wire uses 10ga fuse link. 8ga main wire uses 12ga fuse link. 10ga main wire uses 14ga fuse link. 12ga main wire uses 16ga fuse link. 14ga main wire uses 18ga fuse link. Studying the wiring schematics in any year of my Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth service manuals shows this to be the same for all years and models. The difference between the fusible link and an actual fuse is that if you momentarily cause a short circuit... the fusible link will survive and the fuse will blow. All the new cars use "maxi-fuses" instead of old fashioned fusible links. |
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| Author: | ShivaDart [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I personally found the fusible linke a pain in the *ss to replace, but that might be because the whole thing was bad. I think it sounds like your choice, I always carry a lot of 30 amp fuses, never have had a problem with all my electrical on with the glass fuse type, but if something did happen I have plenty on hand at all times, something that I can't say about a fusible link(well, actually, I'm strange... I have a roll of fusible link in the back of my car |
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| Author: | volaredon [ Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Actually, the idea of a fusible link is to act just like a fuse. It is not only smaller gauge, but a softer alloy as well, to melt easier than regular copper wire does. Ever try to solder a fusible link?? Impossible. That is because the alloy of the copper melts before the other end is anywhere near solder melt temp. If you replace it with other tnan a fusible link (which I normally do since I solder and heat shrink every connection I make especially where moisture is a problem) try a circuit breaker. Like they use in power window circuits and such. It'll pop like a fuse but reset itself once it cools. As far as using a 30amp fuse, (or breaker) depending on which circuit is involved, it may not be enuf. Remember that all the current that the car's charging system produces has to go thru the amp gauge. Even if you don't have a 100 amp alternator, if it is that circuit that blew, as soon as the alternator goes above 30 amps output, that fuse is on borrowed time. Notice how high the amp gauge goes when the car is 1st started, then drops?? When you 1st start it, the amperage flares to near max output then drops off. I remember when I removed the 65 amp alternator from my 79 Ramcharger, and upgraded to a 100amper, the 1st time my alternator was asked to really work (I was giving another car a jump) I had a smoke show from behind the dash, blew the amp gauge, and next time I shut off and went to restart, the whole truck was as dead as a doornail. I went and bought a Stewart Warner 100amp ammeter and put it in the factory amp gauge slot (with minor dash surgery) and never had another no-start with that truck again! |
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| Author: | Pete Dumbleton [ Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The 'slow blow' characteristic of the Fusible Links, plus the ease of manufacturing a wiring harness without the extra hardware, if prolly why the auto industry used them. Back then, AFAIK the alternatives would have been the thermal auto-reset circuit breakers ($$) or glass fuses ($), so the FLs made more sense. If the dealer service used clamp-on parallel connectors to replace them, the labor wouldn't have been a whole lot more than replacing a fuse. My 82 truck factory service manual states that the FL has 'hypalon' insulation, which I would guess is prolly flame retardant, so that makes sense also. If the wiring is stressed, it's better to have it melt out in the open on the fender with something around it that won't catch fire. And you really don't want something like a bulkhead connection to be the one to melt down as it will likely damage a lot of other connections and be a bear to fix. Given the common modern application of the maxi fuses, I would suspect they have 'slow blow' characteristics. The glass fuses come in a range of slow-to-quick blow in the same amperages (the letters in the name say which is which, but I don't recall the codes), but they are notorious for corrosion problems, so I can understand why auto designers wouldn't want them on the fender. I notice that all have gone to the blade fuses (ATC/ATO) on the inside panel and I would guess corrosion is the reason. BTW, I believe I recall looking in my service manual wiring diagrams and there was a note about a larger wire size used to support the larger alternator that was available in 1982. My stock alternator was only 41 Amps output with my /6 and no a/c. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
From personal experience I think the thirty amp is enough. My car I believe has a 100 watt alt(60 at lowest). The starter takes 165 to 180 amps when cranking, free running it has 90 amp draw(thats reduction gear type, numbers are higher for direct drive type). All this is ran off the thirty amp fuse which has been in for a month now. I checked it yesterday and it looks like new with no stress showing. The weather here has been very cold and yet at night with everything on and driving at sixty I've never had a problem. Not sure how it works but I'm guessing that everything is ran in a way in which the Fusible link or fuse can handle high loads. This might also be because I was looking at my wiring diagram and for the 1971 and up years(in the dart line up at least) most every high am draw object is connected to a relay. It makes senses because if there were no relays than whatever fuse chosen would have to be very big to handle the load. If there were no relays it would also be strange that I could run my 30 amp fan with my headlights and heater off one 30 amp fuse. I'm slowly trying to convert my car to blade type fuses, I hate the glass type. This summer I plan on hijacking a newer car's fule panel and replacing mine if possible. I'm not sure if newer cars run their fuses in-line or not. |
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