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Why am i so slow?
https://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9985		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  slowride [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Why am i so slow?
I went out racing today, i'm kind of happy with how the day went, but am upset at my times.

First run up here it goes: (didnt warm up the tires, running around 26* timing)
60ft. - 2.807
1/8- 11.9 @ 57.859
1/4- 18.765

Best run of the day (3rd run after rain delay, 30* timing, 30psi tire pressure, and lots of burnt rubber)

60ft. - 2.485
1/8 - 11.339 @ 60.311MPH
1/4 - 17.907 @ 73.762MPH

I cant cannot understand this! Car is a 1976 Dart, 3500lbs race weight, cast crank slant with 85 head, shaved .1" ported stock valves and 340 springs. Recurved dist with 9R gov. two light stock springs (robbed the other light one out of a stock dist) Offy intake with Holley 600cfm carb (57mains, white pump cam with 31 shooters, purple spring in secondarys (equal to 74 jets, didnt get enuff pump shot, will be fixed) stock exhaust manifold.

Lockup A-904 with a kit installed (i shift it manually), 8.25" rear with 3.91's

i should have been in the 16s or LOW 17's atleast, even though after 2nd gear the car fell flat on its face (shifted at the 1/8th). hmmm, it was a fun day, and atleast i know what i'm at i guess.. needs some tuning and work. :(

Ran real good in first gear when it hooked :D, the car lurched and the tires spun alittle in first, when is shifted to 2nd it squacked em, and third was "not there"
Author:  slowride [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
forgot to add, i made 25runs and was consitand from 18.0 to 18.1
Author:  225dart [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
im willing to bet the ex manifold is "corking" things up. my 103,000 mile slant with super six, mp header, and 2.76 gears has so far gone a best of 18.44, but will usually run in the 50's. i think to me, your combo sounds like a mid-low 17 sec car, but thats just my opinion, andwe wont know till yours is dialed in a bit. id also bump the timing to 30 deg. total. i run 17 initial on my motor and 13 mechanical. it works really well.

--chad
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  What cam?
Some interesting questions are:

You have a sure grip in the 3.91, right?
You're changing the pump cam to like an orange?
Get a quick change spring pod and make the run with 60's in the primary block, and a brown spring in the secondary pod....

-D.Idiot
Author:  Pierre [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I second the vote for the exhaust. Stock exhaust is really restrictive. I assume you have the mopar electronic ignition since its a 76, so I would also suggest a hotter coil/msd box but I don't see that shaving off more then a few tenths at most. Also make sure the magnetic pickup is gapped right.
Author:  slowride [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
yup got a sure-grip.

i forgot to bring jets/sqirters and my pumpcam kit didnt come in on time. i want to run an orange cam and 60's like you say.

I played around with springs abit, but it didnt seem to make that much of a difference, even tho i only put the yellow (long) in and it didnt make a diff (or much of one, so i went back to purple).

it just seemed to fall flat on its nose. upgrades for this weekend (tommorow) are jets, pumpcams, secondary metering block and i'd like to mess with timing more.
Author:  70valiant [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vote 3 for exhaust. I'm running a lot quicker than that with a MUCH smaller carb and a stock reman distributer. granted I'm weighing in at around 3100 w/ me in it, but that only equals a 0.4 sec advantage my way. and I was only running 3.21's in an open 8.25 and stock 904.
git cher self some headers and larger exhaust.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vote four on the exhaust makes it unanimous! ;)

I also think the 600 carb is a tad too much carburetion for this setup and too Holley. :roll:

D/W
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Lol
"I also think the 600 carb is a tad too much carburetion for this setup and too Holley." :lol:


What cam are you running, if it's 264+ then the 600 will work, but 74's are much too big for the secondaries in any street slant, a black spring would tell you right off the bat since that brings in the secondaries very 'late' (a 600 cfm holley primary throttle plates are bigger than the plates in a 350 cfm 2 barrel....)...the yellow spring on my Hpak made the secondaries come in at 3000 rpm... the black one won't let the secondaries come in unless in the 'upper end' of the tach, and won't let the secondary plates open all the way up (thus kind of 'cheating' to get you a 450 cfm 4 barrel...). I use the black spring to tune the primary side in before I work the secondary side. The first time I ran my 600, I used 68's in my build and they were still too rich, so I run a 'square' configuration of 60's in the primary now, with 63's in the secondary block (well not 'square' but more 'rectangular').

I figure with 340 springs you're running a non-stock cam of some sort.


I would vote for the exhaust also.

I think from a previous post you were going to order a Comp Cam 264, and never told us what exhaust you had.
If running the 'single pipe' about 2.5" and an offy intake your numbers would bear out (and you'd need to yank back your jetting in all the holes, and put in the black spring as the 600 would be way too much for your mill, with out some 'restrictions'....)


Oh, and Dennis says Edelbrock 500 cfm.... :wink:


-D.Idiot

And P.S. 3500 is pretty heavy (about right for a 'late Dart') though, make sure to ditch the spare tire, the back seat, and the contents of your pockets to shave weight...
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lol
Quote:
Oh, and Dennis says Edelbrock 500 cfm.... :wink:
No, this time I say an old Offy 2 X 1bbl manifold modified to accept two BBD's... :D

D/W
Author:  slowride [ Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
i'm running a stock cam, my Comp 264 STILL hasnt come in yet (i expect it late this week)

so i figure next time out with the cam, and headers i think high 15's may be possible. i should have all the carb tuning stuff by then too (jet kit, etc) I'm also going to be putting a non-lockup 904 in (i just put what i had lying around in) and i'll also get the stall upped on the converter.

:twisted:
Author:  sixty4dartgt [ Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I ran a 4 bbl with the stock cam and I also think it's too much carb. :?
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
You are doing pretty well, I'd say, with a stock cam and huge carb and stock exh manifold. Your axle gears won't help you a bit with that cam and exhaust.

What RPM range are you comfortable with?

I agree with my compadres. Here's what you might try for low 16s:

- 23-2500 stall converter (SMR in Canada will make higher stalls in lockup if you need it)
- Comp 264 cam minimum. Isky 264 is reputedly very good. Personally, I'd go for a 276 cam or thereabouts, but that's me.
- 500 Edelbrock carb is definitely as big as you need, but you can make the 600 Holley work. Forget about gas mileage with the Holley though.
-30 deg should be your max for timing advance.
- MP 6X1 header or Clifford street rod headers for easier exhaust fab and better ground clearance. 2.5" single exhaust is all you need and is lighter than duals.

Happy building,

Lou
Author:  slowride [ Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dart270.

I plan to buy some headers, and the cam is already taken care of.

I'm unsure what to do about the trans though. Is a non-lockup trans better in anyway for racing? i'll be looking into a 3000ish stall converter and next time i'll bring slicks (yes is did spin quite abit)

i'm not too worried about gas milage (this car isnt my Daily Driver) and i'm going to gut it :) i hope to take it to 3100 race weight. (that 3500lbs is with me in it and a full tank) the car already has no carpets, so the seats go next, then some sheet metal. the engine is a cast crank so 5500 is the max i'd like to go with for this year.

This year i want 15.5's and next year will be a totally new engine. This winter i'll be working with a local machineshop (Corners Quickly) about building a bigger better slantsix.
Author:  Dennis Weaver [ Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
This year i want 15.5's...
15.5's, huh?

What part of the country are you in? When you get close, we just may have to work out some sort of match race with my Super Duper Six Duster! :D

D/W
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