Hi guys,

New member here posting from England. I've been searching the archives to try and find an answer to my questions but i'm still not sure so here goes.

Me and my brother have a '68 Barracuda with a tired 225ci motor that we are busy swapping out for a fresher motor, also a 225ci slant.
While everythings apart we're installing a clifford intake, clifford shorty headers and a holley 390cfm 4bbl carb.
During the swap we've come across two small problems.

Firstly, the engine has a remote oil filter mounted to the top two bolts on the waterpump body. This seems to put the filter very close indeed to the intake/headers. Being a RHD car the standard filter position next to the distributor and steering box looks very tight. Which is the way to go

Secondly, the new motor has a different oil pan to the old one. It has the number 780 stamped into it if we're reading it correctly. Does anyone know if the oilpan capacities were much different or do we just go with the capacity stated in the factory service manual

Any help here much appreciated.

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And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know - Kansas

Welcome onboard the site here!
Interesting...was this RHD car made in South Africa or Canada? Would love to know more about it. What's the VIN? Any equipment plates located on the inner mudguards under the bonnet? If it's a Canadian-built car, it'll have one or two plates with alphanumeric codes on it. If you'll copy down the contents of those plates and post them, the lot of us could learn a lot about a unique and rather scarce car. There may also be a "Manufactured for Export" plate.
Interesting again. That's how it was done on the '62 S-models in Australia and possibly South Africa, but as far as I knew that was the only time it was done that way. Is it a replaceable-element oil filter, or a spin-on/throwaway type unit? Most of the South African cars after '62 had the oil filter remote-mounted on a bracket spot welded to the rocker cover. The '61 R-model Australian cars (think also South African) had the filter remote-mounted on the offside inner guard. The '63-up Australian cars had the filter remote mounted low on the nearside of the block, at about oil sump rail level, behind the water pump.
Yeah, impossibly so, which is why it wasn't done that way on RHD cars. Have you got the official RHD oil pump without an inbuilt filter mounting pad? This pump has two threaded fittings into which are screwed pipes which lead to the remote oil filter. Or, have you got a LHD oil pump with filter mounting pad, converted to remote-filter operation by means of an adaptor kit mounted on the filter pad?

Either way, it seems to me you could rather easily relocate the filter to e.g. the offside inner guard by means of some suitable new hosepipes and a standard remote filter mount.
To avoid fitment problems, it'd be best to re-use the original engine's oil sump, if it's in good nick. If not, and you're forced to use the new oil sump (and it fits!), then yes, most all of the passenger car sumps had closely similar capacities; the correct fill, with filter replacement, would be 4.16 UK Quarts (4.75 litre). Truck sumps vary in their capacity and probably will not fit in your Barracuda anyhow.

BTW, what colour are the rear indicators? Do they flash amber, or red?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Since that's basically an American car, wouldn't that be "fenderwells" and "the hood"?

D/W

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If it ain't broke, fix it!

Personally, I'd look at attempting to mount it to the firewall, driver's inner fender, or perhaps the inside of the radiator support and plumbing it with a decent flexible line, using good fittings at both ends.

Roger

Thanks for the welcome and the advice guys.

In answer to your questions Dan, when I looked up the details on the VIN plate i'm pretty sure the car came up as being built at the Hamtramck plant.
Unfortunately the fender tag was missing when we got the car but there is another plate on the left hand inner fender with a mystery number on it.
I'll copy what numbers we have at the weekend and post them on the board, i'll be interested to know what the mystery number means.

Regarding the oil pump, it does not have a mounting for the oil filter, just the two threaded outlets to the oil pipes that loop around the rear of block then along under the manifolds to a spin off type disposable filter attached via a bracket to the waterpump.

The oilpan should fit our Barracuda as it came from a Duster previously. We'll fill it to the spec you've quoted and remark the the dipstick if necessary as there wasn't one with the new motor.

Rear indicators by the way flash red as standard, but the reversing lights have been pushed into service as indicators using amber bulbs. I'd prefer to leave them standard but for safetys sake we're using the UK legal setup.

Thanks again for your help.

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And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know - Kansas

WOW, really?! That is so strange! Theoretically all the export and RHD cars built in North America were done at Windsor. But a lot of strange cars came down pretty much every Chrysler line in those days, and just about every "rule" was broken in many ways, many times.
Pity. Have you gone digging for the build sheet?
I'll try my best.
OK, and this filter mounts with the screw-on base facing downward and the domed top of the filter pointing upward? The filter is up topside, roughly same height as the air cleaner? Or is it down by the oil sump/block junction?
Agreed.
Probably wise. "Oi, what's that flashing red light mean? *KRUNCH*"

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Thanks again for the help!

Right... Moving through the refit nicely, but at the other end we have a decision to make on the exhaust. I've checked back on the forum and can't find what we're after.

What diameter exhaust should we use with our set up? Also what muffler? We are torn between Flowmaster and Spintech and would appreciate some advice.

Cheers, Guys!

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And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know - Kansas

You said you'd put in headers, is that right?

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Yep, using Clifford shorty headers.

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And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know - Kansas

I carefully keep away from Clifford, so I'm not thoroughly familiar with those. But, 2.25" pipeworks will probably get you what you want while minimising the low-end torque loss.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

After using this site for heaps of information over the past 6 months, I thought I'd give something back and write my first post. Unfortunately I don't think this info is going to help you out 68BarracudaUK. I have a 62 S Series here in Australia with headers and with the upside down oil filter in that most annoying of locations. I have a set of Genie Headers and the number 1 primary pipe actually runs around the front of the oil filter. I don't know if Genie ship internationally or not, but just thought I'd let you know that there are headers out there that do fit on with the oil filter in that position.

From the S Series on the oil filter was mounted on the engine block basically directly below where the filter is on the S Series. It was also around the other way and on a bit of an angle (same angle as the motor). If that makes any sense??

Valiants built for export were built in Detroit and Hamtramck from 1960 through 1966, both LHD and RHD. With the adoption of the Autopact trade agreement between the U.S. and Canada, from 1967 all export vehicles were built in the U.S. (unless it was a model not built in the U.S. - such as the 1981-83 Imperials).

Valiants for Australia came from the Detroit while Valiants for the U.K. (prior to 1967) came from Windsor. Starting in 1967 Valiants for the U.K. came from Australia.

I have production figures for the 1960 Valiant broken down by assembly plant and for Hamtramck/Windsor by domestic/export.

Hamtramck production -
V-100 models : 48,212 -
Domestic - 46,203
LHD (CKD) - 924
RHD (CKD) - 792
LHD (KDUB) - 293

V-200 models : 87,527 -
Domestic - 85,786
LHD (CKD) - 1,740
RHD (CKD) - 0
LHD (KDUB) - 1


Windsor production -
V-100 models : 2,566 -
Domestic - 2,395
LHD (CKD) - 135
RHD (CKD) - 36

V-200 models : 3,910 -
Domestic - 3,787
LHD (CKD) - 106
RHD (CKD) - 17

Newark and St.Louis built Valiants for domestic market only -
Newark : V-100 - 5,423 / V-200 - 14,181
St.Louis : V-100 - 10,533 / V-200 - 21.940

The 3-seat wagon was not built or sold in Canada in 1960.

The Canadian plant built RHD Dodge Lancers for export in 1961-62, all 4-door sedans. They were actually Valiants with a Lancer trunk lid, Lancer steering wheel medallion, Lancer nameplates on the body sides and Lancer hub caps/wheel covers.

"The Motor" in Britain printed a test report on a Canadian-built Valiant V-200 sedan (test 6/63). It was the Canadian Dart/Valiant hybrid (model TVX1-H) but with Dart seat upholstery. They show a shot of the engine compartment with the oil filter located just above and to the right of the water pump. It had to be put there on the RHD models to make room for the steering column.

The use of the back-up lamps for the turn signals, with either amber bulbs or amber lenses, was quite common outside North America. In many countries it was mandatory to have amber turn signals, front and rear, and the cheapest way to meet the law was to wire the back-lights as turn signals. And they also did service as back-up lamps.

As for build sheets, you won't find one on a Windsor-built car prior to 1966 or so. And until about 1971, the build sheet was just a half sheet of paper with a few numbers (VIN, SON, some options, colours). I do know the 1972 models got the American-style preprinted sheet (I have the one from my Windsor-built 1972 Dart)

Simiarly, the U.S.-style data tag did not appear until the 1966 model year. 1966 was the first year Windsor built cars for the American market under the Autopact agreement. That year Chrysler Canada built 56,271 Dart sedans and hardtops for the U.S. No A-body wagons were built in Canada in 1966 and no convertibles built in Windsor were exported to the U.S.

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Bill
Vancouver, BC

Respectfully, I do not believe that is entirely true. Not only do the 1960-1972 (possibly earlier and/or later, as well; that is the year range I have at hand in my office) Chrysler Canada Ltd. FPCs call out all the export-spec parts which are entirely absent from the US FPCs, but a May 1965 Chrysler Corp. publication "Development and Testing of Products for Export" makes specific mention of "current and recent BUX and CKD production at Windsor", with photographs. There seems to have been relatively close coöperation between Chrysler Corp and Chrysler Canada on export vehicle coördination and production, even prior to the Auto Pact. This makes sense, given that export markets were minor in terms of sales volume, but Chrysler still considered it very important to have a strong global presence. Lack of coöperation between the US and Canadian operations would've inevitably meant redundant efforts, and with the high costs and low margins involved in many sectors of the export business, that would've been problematic.
The 1961 RV1 and 1962 SV1 CKDs for Australia are most commonly understood to have come from Windsor. After those two model years, Valiants for Australia came from Australia (CAL's Tonsley Park assembly plant's first product was the 1963 AP5 Valiant).
Not all of them. Chrysler South Africa shipped Valiants and derivatives to the UK, too. But yes, Chrysler Australia shipped a relatively(!) large number of VC Valiants to the tiny UK market in '66-'67.
Good figures! Remember, those wouldn't include the Australian market, where only a literal few QX1 1960 Valiants were sent for evaluation.
Yep, these are called out in the CFPC as "Valiant conv to Lancer" in section 23. There were also the '61 Lancer BUXes sold as "DeSoto Rebel" in South Africa from 1961-1963. These were 100% '61 Lancer on the outside, with DeSoto badging and white front reflectors mandatory in South Africa. The instrument cluster was '61 Valiant, same as the Australian RV1-SV1 cars.
I'm sure you already know that most all the TVXs got Dart seat upholstery. Same goes for the VVXs of 1964.
Same setup used on the Australian 1962 SV1s. Here is a factory photo of the way it was done on Australian-market (and probably some other RHD markets) starting in '63. The photo is of a MY67 E27 engine (225 2bbl) with Torqueflite. I'm not certain how this arrangement was modified when the car was equipped with power steering and/or air conditioning, but it must've changed at least somewhat! The more one looks at this photo—not just at the oil filter placement—the more differences one sees, comparing to North American equipment.


Virtually all the Australian Valiants were set up this way. Some countries required the reversing lamps to emit white light, though, so the Australian-type setup was not permitted. Most of those countries, at the time, permitted red rear turn signals, so there were only very few countries where special contortions had to be gone through to provide red brake lights and amber indicators and white reversing lamps. The UK prior to 1973 permitted rear indicators to be red or amber, reversing lights to be amber or white, and brake lamps to be red or amber(!).

The North American A-bodies sent to the UK in 1968, including the Barracuda in question, had the US-type system with red combination brake/tail/turn lamps and white reversing lamps. Present-day regulations in the UK call for amber rear indicators, red brake lamps and white reversing lamps. While the '68 in question could legally keep its red indicators, UK drivers are accustomed to seeing amber indicators and so many older US-design cars are converted to amber rear indicators anyhow.
My 1965 Canadian Valiant Custom 200, obviously built at Windsor, had a sheet...don't remember its production date, perhaps it was a late-build car.
The US-style data tag didn't appear in the US until the 1966 model year, either!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

[quote="SlantSixDan"]Respectfully, I do not believe that is entirely true. Not only do the 1960-1972 (possibly earlier and/or later, as well; that is the year range I have at hand in my office) Chrysler Canada Ltd. FPCs call out all the export-spec parts which are entirely absent from the US FPCs, but a May 1965 Chrysler Corp. publication "Development and Testing of Products for Export" makes specific mention of "current and recent BUX and CKD production at Windsor", with photographs. There seems to have been relatively close coöperation between Chrysler Corp and Chrysler Canada on export vehicle coördination and production, even prior to the Auto Pact. This makes sense, given that export markets were minor in terms of sales volume, but Chrysler still considered it very important to have a strong global presence. Lack of coöperation between the US and Canadian operations would've inevitably meant redundant efforts, and with the high costs and low margins involved in many sectors of the export business, that would've been problematic..[/quote]

The markets outside North America were handled by Chrysler International (formerly Chrysler Export) and I suspect they handled the sourcing of cars from Canada and the U.S. Canada did have special trade relations with some countries and, with Autopact, it would have made sense to ship cars to certain countries through Canada. And, as I stated, there were some models built in Windsor not built in Detroit that would have to be shipped from Windsor.

Remember, too, from 1967 through 1969 the Windsor plant built only C-body Plymouths and Dodges. Starting December 1969 the Windsor plant built only A body cars, adding the Satellite for 1972. And by 1976 the Windsor plant was the only source for Cordobas and Charger SE models, and later Magnum and Mirada. All 1983 RWD cars were built at Windsor and all FWD cars in the U.S. After that only the FWD minivans and Pacifica.

[quote="SlantSixDan"]The 1961 RV1 and 1962 SV1 CKDs for Australia are most commonly understood to have come from Windsor. After those two model years, Valiants for Australia came from Australia (CAL's Tonsley Park assembly plant's first product was the 1963 AP5 Valiant)..[/quote]

The R & S series Valiants were CKD units shipped to Australia and thus had the original serial number, although only the last eight digits. From discussions with various owners of the Australian-built Valiants, they came from Detroit as the original VIN plate has "2" for the assembly plant.

That dual serial number was also used for the British operation in the 1930's. I have copies of "Glass's Car Guide" which list the American/Canadian numbers along with the Kew factory numbers. One interesting note is that leftover 1934 Airflow models were sold in 1935 and 1936, with the Kew serial number prefixed with the Engineering Dept's model year code for those years - L and M. ("A" was used for 1924-25, 1942 and 1965).

I have a copy of a book listing the serial numbers sequences for cars sold in Australia from 1926 through 1961. The biggest surprise is how many models were imported from Detroit and not Windsor. And there are periods where the sourcing changed back and forth. One fellow I have been talking to has an Australian 1940 Chrysler Royal that was built on an American-built Windsor chassis. Perhaps the value of the Canadian and American dollars came into play here.

Also, Chrysler Canada did not export cars and trucks during the 1955 model year. 1954 production seems to have had a higher than normal production of chassis units for Plymouth and Dodge (the 1954 Plymouth/Kingsway/Diplomat models were sold in Australia through 1956.)

Just a note - the year "Q" was used only once - for the 1960 Valiant. All other 1960 Chrysler vehicles were "P". And not many know the 1960 Valiant was the only Valiant that was not a "V".

[quote="Chrycoman"]"The Motor" in Britain printed a test report on a Canadian-built Valiant V-200 sedan (test 6/63). It was the Canadian Dart/Valiant hybrid (model TVX1-H) but with Dart seat upholstery.[/quote]

[quote="SlantSixDan"]I'm sure you already know that most all the TVXs got Dart seat upholstery. Same goes for the VVXs of 1964..[/quote]

Actually, the Canadian market TVX Valiants used the American TV seat and door upholstery while the export TVX used the TL interiors. Both, though, used the Valiant (TV) instrument panel. I once owned a Canadian 1963 TVX1-H Valiant V-200 sedan, complete with TV-style V-200 interior.

For 1964 the Canadian VVX series used Valiant instrument panels with Dart upholstery, the Signet using the GT upholstery with the 'fratzogs' replaced by the Valiant 'V'. The VVX Barracuda, though, used the same upholstery as the Ameican original.

[quote="Chrycoman"]As for build sheets, you won't find one on a Windsor-built car prior to 1966 or so.[/quote]

[quote="SlantSixDan"]My 1965 Canadian Valiant Custom 200, obviously built at Windsor, had a sheet...don't remember its production date, perhaps it was a late-build car..[/quote]

Chrysler Canada had a strike starting late January 1965 and lasting through to March. During this time, Chrysler Canada actually imported cars from Detroit. In 1965 my father purchased a new 1965 Dodge 330, slant six, and I can remember seeing three Ameircan Dodge Polaras (two hump dash) on the back row. Valiants, Plymouths and Chryslers were imported as well.

I have production figures for the 1962-64 Dodge 880 and the 1965 Custom 880/Polara 880. The 1965 Custom 880 lists the cars built in Detroit and shipped to Canada :
2-door hardtop - 110
4-door sedan - 1 *
4-door hardtop - 70
3-seat wagon - 1 **
* - This was a 4-window sedan, a model not offered in the U.S., and the only one built. The American Custom 880 offered the 6-window Town Sedan, which was built in Canada only as a Chrysler New Yorker.
** - Chrysler Canada did not build/sell Fury III / Polara 880 wagons.

The Canadian Polara 880 figures do not list 6 and V8 production, only totals. And the Monaco models are also not separated (the Canadian 1965 Monaco was model AD*-H, same as the Polara 880, and not AD*-P as in the U.S.)

[quote="Chrycoman"]Simiarly, the U.S.-style data tag did not appear until the 1966 model year.[/quote]

[quote="SlantSixDan"]The US-style data tag didn't appear in the US until the 1966 model year, either! [/quote]

The U.S.-style data tag dates back to 1953, when Chrysler started building all their own bodies after purchasing Briggs Body. It evolved over the years, with the general layout used in 1966 appearing during 1960. I own a 1962 Dodge Lancer GT, built and sold in Los Angeles, with the said data tag.

The tag used in Canada through to 1965 listed model number, body number, paint code and trim code. That tag goes back to at least 1935. Chrysler Canada began building their own bodies in 1927, after GM declared Fisher Body would no longer build bodies for non-GM products. Chrysler of Canada purchased the ex-Fisher Body plant in Walkerville (now part of Windsor) and used it until the plant on Chrysler Centre opened in 1929. Briggs never had a Canadian operation, by the way.

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Bill
Vancouver, BC

Probably correct.
Well, Canada was more or less a British Commonwealth country, so there were special trade relations with other BC countries.
My information differs from yours, so we'll have to leave that as an open question for the present. The Australian-sold cars, even the early ones, have very complex numerology—just when you think you've got it figured out that they conform to a particular plant's system, you find a curveball that upsets the whole applecart.
True. And the 1961 Lancer was "W", changing to "L" for 1962 (and the Dodge compact, though renamed "Dart", would keep the "L" designation right up through the end in 1976!)
H'mmmmm. Maybe a trim line split; I've seen too many TL interiors on TVXs to go completely along with this.
Ah, we are talking across each other. When you mentioned the 1966 intro of the data tag, I took you to mean the alphanumeric fender tags which, reading back and correcting what I wrote, didn't appear until 1969. It was the Certicards that didn't appear under the hood until 1966. I agree with you that the US-type vehicle equipment plates were not present on Canadian-build cars until 1966.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.