I've been following the various threads regarding kickdown linkage/cable setups with interest because it is an issue with which I must deal soon. In an earlier thread Dan mentioned using the transmission pan from a Dakota with a 42RE transmission. That jogged something in my twisted mind because that is the tranny I have in my Dakota. It ocurred to me that the transmission kickdown is accomplished by means of a cable so I dug out the repair manual and peeked under the hood and by golly I think I'm onto something here. It looks to me that the brackets and cable could readily be taken from a late 90s Dakota and used handily on a slant with an A904. Has anyone done this or thought about it at all? Is there something I'm overlooking? I'm also thinking the throttle cable and pedal could be used as well but I already have the solution for that.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

H'mmm...interesting! Didn't realise the -E (electronically controlled) transmissions had any kickdown input at the trans, thought it was just calculated at the TCM or PCM based on throttle position and vehicle speed. Any chance you could toss up some pics of what you see? Sounds promising!

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

It's dark now but I'll see if I can get some shots in the morning. I'll also scan a drawing that I found in a Haynes (yeah, I know...) manual. What I can tell you is that the cable operates as a pull cable, not a push cable. It is linked to the throttle body at one end and loops around behind the transmission to pull the kickdown lever ( throttle valve lever ) from behind rather than pushing it from the front as a rod style linkage would do.

For what it's worth, the transmission looks externally very much like an A904 behind a small block. The shift lever and kickdown are in the same place and appear to operate in the same manner.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

OK. Here are some pictures... if I can get this to work right.


This is a diagram from a Haynes Manual

Throttle body view - the kickdown cable is to the left,
the cruise and throttle cables to the right


Under the truck. You can see the shifter cable and lever and
partially hidden the kickdown cable and lever just above it.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

Nifty...now the only real remaining questions are whether that kickdown cable bracket can readily be bolted onto an earlier trans, and whether the kickdown lever itself (on the trans) needs to be changed.

I will show this thread to Pat Blais and ask for some commentary.

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

It will be interesting to see his remarks. FWIW, the boss to which the braket bolts is present on the A904 that I have out of a '62 Lancer. It even has a hole drilled in it. In fact, the external case appears to be very nearly identical between the two, other than the engine mounting flange of course.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

Pat Blais says:

The only caveat to using a cable "pull type" KD setup is to make sure
that the arrangement and geometry transfer the motion from the
carburetor to the lever at the Torqueflite in a linear fashion as the
original mechanical linkage did.
There are primarily two aftermarket companies producing kits to do this;
LoKar and Bouchillon. They started doing this a few years ago,
Bouchillon being the first I believe. I expect the aftermarket idea
originated after the EFI cars came out using the cable KD setups. My
exposure to the hobbyists (and feedback from them) using the LoKar setup
is that theirs tends to be a bit too generic and instructions not done
in a manner to cause the hobbyist to be able to easily (if at all) get
the system to work properly. Bouchillon seems to have the better
product, possibly because they were the first.

One of my local customers who had worked at a Chrysler dealership
installed a 1994 EFI 360 into a 1970 Duster with a TF-727-A. He
purchased all the factory brackets and hardware in an effort to cause
the KD to work properly; he was calling me quite regularly complaining
of soft low-speed shifts, shifts that occurred a bit early and
difficulty getting "kickdown" or passing gear to work. Repeatedly I
explained those 3 conditions point directly at throttle-pressure being
too low throughout the range, i.e. not enough throttle-pressure being
applied at the TF throughout throttle travel. This has been a problem
for about the last 20 years in the hobby with enthusiasts not fully
understanding how the throttle-pressure linkage should work properly and
more importantly how absolutely critical it is to proper TF operation
AND longevity.

The Torqueflite valve body is fed 2 signals to cause proper operation:
governor pressure and throttle-pressure. Governor pressure simply tells
the valve body how fast the vehicle is going, as it is a centrifugal
pressure regulating assembly. Generally there are no problems with the
governor as it is inside the Torqueflite and not subject to being fooled
with. Throttle pressure on the other hand is external and usually the
crux of shift quality problems, i.e. carburetor/intake manifold swaps,
etc.

Simply stated, when the Torqueflite is operating correctly, as the
vehicle accelerates from a stop the governor pressure overrides throttle
pressure and the Torqueflite upshifts; initially from Low/First to
Second and then from Second to Drive. Conversely when you are cruising
along and decide to pass another car (or feel the need for a "rush") you
put the gas pedal on the floorboard and the opposite occurs, i.e.
throttle pressure overrides governor pressure and the Torqueflites
shifts the other direction, from Drive to Second or at lower speeds from
Drive to Low/First ("kickdown" or passing gear.

Geometry is the class in school that has been most useful to me and with
"kickdown" or throttle-pressure problems, geometry is what will solve
the problems. Just keep in mind that there are 2 basic parameters to
focus on: KD lever being pushed fully to the rear at W.O.T. and the KD
lever being towards the rear at idle enough to effect the shifts
occurring at the proper speeds (and firmness) at low throttle positions.
If you can get the W.O.T. set and the low-speed shifts occur OK,
everything else should fall into place, assuming of course a linear
transfer of motion from carburetor to TF. It can on occasion be a real
mental challenge though; that's what makes us mechanics, i.e. figuring
out where the problem is and correcting it. We just can't resist the
curiousity !

_________________
一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Currently I am running with the Lokar KD cable with my Weber 32/36 and having no problems.

I don't know enough about the differences between Weber and factory carb linkages that could explain my lack of problems.

I received fairly generic instructions with KD cable, but did not have any difficulty in installing it. It took me a total of 4 test drives to get it adjusted just right. About an hour spent tuning.

Brian

_________________
Flyin' Brian

74 Duster, 225, rear-mounted blow through turbo at 12psi boost, street/strip car
"Sixy Beast"

Well, he doesn't specifically address the Dakota version of the kickdown cable but I don't see any red flags either, other than the usual and important adjustment issue. The Dakota cable has an adjustment mechanism and the brackets look like they should be a relatively straight-forward installation. The only remaining question is the cost. I would think a salvage price would be fairly reasonable but I have no idea about new cost from a dealer or if the brackets as well as the cable itself can be obtained. The Lokar cable is around $60.00 but you have to do some fabrication to make it work while the Dakota cable should bolt up, at least at the transmission end. The carburetor bracket might require some modification/fabrication.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.