Is there such a thing that we could use instead of draining power from the engine with a belt?

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

You'd still be draining power off the engine with a belt...via the alternator, to create the electricity to drive the P/S pump. There are much more effective and cost-effective ways to reduce parasitic losses (like, for example, dumping the P/S altogether).

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I love, but LOVE when somebody ask about something that you don't like and you hit him in the head with a brick!

Bren, I'm thinking the same as you, some kind of electric motor which would turn say 1500-1800 rpm the pump so steer would be more stable all over the rpm range and not rob as much horsepower as the belt driven unit. If I find something I'll post it.

Other thoughts that I've been having (specially after smoking, hehehe ) is using an A/C clutch (I hate A/C... BTW) and being able to turn the PS pump on and off for city/highway/cruise convenience

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Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

No brick thrown. I was going to, but deleted it before posting.
Except for the extreme condition of rapid steering wheel movement at very low engine speeds (maneuvering around the parking lot), the steering boost is a function of the valving in the steering box, not a function of pump speed. The relief valve in the pump means that the horsepower required to drive the pump remains constant for any given steering load, regardless of engine RPM.
Bzzt. Power in = power out. There is no such a thing as free power. For a given steering load, the pump will take a certain amount of power to turn, whether it's being turned directly by the engine or by an electric motor powered by an alternator turned by the engine. If you add the electric motor, you are adding the power losses of it and of the alternator to the total losses incurred by power steering.

Let's suppose the power steering pump takes 2 horsepower to turn. If you are turning it with a belt driven by the engine, and there is no slippage in the belt, then your parasitic loss due to power steering is 2hp.

If you turn the pump (which requires 2hp = 1492 watts) with a motor, then you need to get 1492 watts out of the motor. But the motor's only about 60 to 70 percent efficient at best, so let's say 65%. That means the motor requires 2295 watts' input from the alternator in order to apply 1492 watts' output to the steering pump. The alternator is also about 65% efficient, which means that in order to put out 2295 watts, it requires 3531 watts' input from the engine via the drive belt (or, going back to horsepower, 4.73hp). So, you have worsened the parasitic loss from the P/S by nearly 237%. Where's the savings? It doesn't exist!
Thought of that, but to test out the driving effect of a P/S box without power applied, remove the P/S belt and go for a drive. P/S without power is not the same as nonpower steering!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Well, the truth hurts like a brick sometimes :-p

Bottom line, the law of Conservation of Energy applies here. You can't get something for nothing. Electric fans are the same way- when they're running, they draw just as much horsepower off the engine as an engine-driven fan of the same air capacity.

Where electric fans can win is the fact that they can be shut down when not needed. The problem with electric steering in the real world is that it can never *really* be shut down, and on top of that good old conventional hydraulic power steering draws virtually zero power when its not needed too- the pressure drops to zero and the load on the pump is just the (small) friction of fluid flowing through the lines and back. The gain of electric steering over hydraulic is *RAZOR* thin, even with direct-acting electric steering like the automakers are using- its a dead looser if you try an electric motor driving a hydraulic pump. The automakers believe that there are incremental gains to be made with electric steering, because they are moving that way. But for a retrofit- don't even BOTHER. The automakers can win by saving 1/1000th of a horsepower mutliplied by 10 million vehicles. You'll never win with such a small return.

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If one had a WOT switch which cut the alt. field, there would be no loss from the alt.
Brick caught and returned.

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

... and if we put in a microprocessor and a sensor array (speed, steering position and input rates, acceleration, brake pedal effort, etc), we could have a digitally-controlled response and a programmable variable assist ... and a lot more complication in the cars we love for their simplicity.

Isn't WOT one of the situations where you want full voltage to the ignition?

It might be fun to brainstorm or tinker with, but it gets too close to drive by wire for my taste.

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"When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it." - Pointy-haired Boss

1964 Valiant V200, 225/Pushbutton 904
BBD, CAI, HEI, LBP, AC, AM/FM/USB, EIEIO

Drag strip guys disconnect the field wire all the time.

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

Sorry To Poke In; But, What Is A Field Wire?

Yes they do. It worked in the days of points, but when you have electronic ignition, fans, fuel pumps, etc. that draw a lot of juice, the car will slow down.

The weight of power steering is much more the factor than parasitic power loss.

As stated earlier, P/S only draws power when you are turning the wheel, and really doesn't draw much unless you put it in relief it or are stopped.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.

...until you turned the alternator back on, at which point it would take exactly as much power as you "saved", to charge the battery from which you drew the power to run the steering pump.

Give it up, dude, it's not a good idea.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Many of the ones who do it don't bother checking whether it makes them faster or slower.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I think where the confusion is that I am not looking for overall power gains. I am looking for the most when the throttle is wide open. If the battery is being charged when my foot is not on the gas I don't care. As for the electronic ignition not performing up to par with low voltage (11.5v), the Msd advertizements indicate that performance dose't drop off until the voltage drops below 8 volts. This may or maynot be true. A lot of modern A/C cars shut down the A/C compressor under hard acceleration. Why- To allow for more available power from the engine.
The one thing I am worried about is when the relay closes just off WOT and the high RPM and high demand from the voltage regulator may spike the electronics. What do you think about this? Do you think the battery will absorb the spike or will there even be a spike?
This may want to be spilt

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

I think it's a silly idea and a waste of time.

There -- now you have yer brick. Enjoy!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

At WOT it is safe to assume that you will be driving in a straight line, correct? P/S does not consume a noticeable amount of power when driving straight.

An electric motor of adequate power to drive a P/S pump will add more weight than you will save in HP gains anyway.

As Dan has stated, racers sometimes do things just because they have been told it works, without ever testing to see if it really does. Kinda like lemmings, we are.

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Official Cookie and Mater Tormentor.