From experience, I say don't use platinum plugs unless your car was designed for that. I used to have a neon, and I used the Bosch platinum +4 plugs. Throttle response, idle, etc seemed better after I installed them, but I was replacing old plugs. The bosch plugs got old after a while - the center electrode receded below the porcelain on each plug. They didn't last long at all, not more than 20,000 miles for sure.

So I say keep the $$ and don't get the expensive plugs.

I knew not to question your knowledge!

Take no offense in the following, but regarding some of the areas (throttle response, idle, etc) I'm talking about: By "believers" I mean someone who has used them and has seen improvements (I assume that would mean anyone with half a brain who can tell when something is better or not..and not based on stroking one's mind)....who does'nt have to base everything on a dyno or data logging systems with a mindset that otherwise it's $#!+. If you can feel/see/determine something that's all you will ever need. Some may only base things on data readings and such, that's fine, but it is not the only way to determine something, at least in the areas I'm talking about...this must be remembered.

Perhaps you are simply overlooking the obvious......the most basic and simple of explanations I can think of: That if one can't discern as to whether they notice any improvements (the kind I'm talking about) by seeing, feeling, smelling, listening or tasting! then there would be no point in wasting further time and money. What for? Why resort to a dyno or other means if you can't tell a difference.... What would be the point in using something if you can't see a difference? I don't need data to tell me whether something like this is better or not...nor do I buy into the usual line of crap thinking that I spent alot of money therefore it must be better. That's another doosie! Which leads me to the next issue:

The thought that we all are poorly equipped to process phenomena and that we are simple.... yadda-yadda-yadda may apply in some instances, but this type of comment also is thrown out immediately as a sort of blanket statement..(have seen it countless times, it never fails to be thrown out there from the get-go)..to quickly try and establish the upper hand......to render the opposing
opinions/views/beliefs/experiences/proof/etc as suspect...in return they become suspect. Makes for good debate I suppose, but I don't buy into it. Never will, very suspect.
Having said that I wonder: How does one go about compiling data (and what are the facts) in regards to throttle response (as an example) specifically? What is the standard for measuring throttle repsonse or the agreed upon ways of improving it?
I've never read/heard about dyno use (or by emissions probes) as a means for measuring throttle response, am I missing something here? Maybe expensive computer analysis is possible, has it been done that way? I only ask because the only way I ever determined throttle response and if it was good, better, best...or crap (cars, trucks, rc cars, motorcycles) was by trial and error....seat of the pants, observing, listening, etc. Mash the throttle..Many years of experience here, just like most I'm sure. Most can tell when something accelerates better I would think. The more stronger, quicker, smoother, faster, instantaneous the better. That's all I need...my experienced ass, eyes, ears......

From my tests on two motorcycles (a 74 Harley with magneto, at a later date a Triumph w/electronic ignition ....all in perfect tuning/running condition) where I could quickly replace two plugs with another set I was able to compare the starting (both kickstart) idle quality as well as throttle response of all. Not just once but two-three times each. And the throttle response translated to the road tests I did...improved, anytime the throttle was whacked. The iridium plugs clearly were better in all instances. Throttle response was that much more instantaneous vs. the standard NGK's I used to run in those two bikes. How much better of an improvement vs. the cost and value? That all depends on the individual. Again, many pay much more for much less so who's to say.

You are aware........yes you are(you don't need a lesson!), that it is'nt the iridium that has anything to do with the improvements, the iridium only affects longevity. It's the design of the center electrode tip and the ground strap that have bearing on the flame kernal produced and the resultant performance.

So I know that these type of plugs do in fact improve certain areas of engine performance..on the "motorcycles" I tested them on, and the few extra $$ are worth it to me......but my question remains: has anyone used them in a slant 6 and what did you notice regarding startup, idle, throttle response and so on...anyone?

I hate you Dan! Now I have to check the ignition in my van! I bought the nice Blue streak cap and rotor. Now I have to mic it because I thought it looked short! (I did keep the old one) Is the V-8 and slant rotor the same? I have points in the slant.

BTW never said my friend uses split fires!

I have been using Autolites for 5 years. What is it you don't like about Champions? I've never had a problem with them.

I had to buy Champions because the store was out of Autolites.

Except for the PT I bought the Champions because they were cheaper.

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'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

Only those in which humans are involved.
No, statements are suspect when there's no evidence to back them up. "I tried them and they definitely work" isn't evidence.
You could run a dyno test other than a simple torque and horsepower plot pull. Or you could do as I already described having done.
Yes, the point, and I have a teeny-tiny suspicion you might be doing it on purpose!
The seat of your pants can give you an opinion, but cannot provide evidence.
No Darts or Valiants with Triumph or Harley engines, that I know of!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Yep, V8 and slant rotor is the same.
Lost an expensive catalytic converter to a Champion spark plug.
Had Champion's cheap cut threads seize in a super-expensive very rare cylinder head, which was only saved with a great amount of time, effort and money. Have watched Champion's materials and build quality drop lower and lower and lower as the Federal-Mogul MBAs continue their cost-cutting mission. Don't see any reason to buy 'em when there are much better plugs available for very similar money.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Ding Ding
Round 3

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67Cuda,FAST EZEFI,340cu,CR=10.25,RollerCam&Rocker (XR268HR,#20-810-9)(#1622-16)(EddyRPM#60779,#7576), (MSD6AL,#6425) A904, GearVendorsOD, 8 1/4,3.55:1, ClassicAir

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes..... what you say is absolutely true, and ultimately is the "final say" .....but come on!......is this what you do with every subject? Must everything be so complex and so involved all the time? Must you always "flex the brain"? Especially regarding the lowly spark plug? Do you approach every discussion with such over the top intellect? So you have very high standards ... You obviously enjoy popping little pimples like me, and do it quite easily, don't you? I can't/would'nt deny the knowledge and value you bring to this forum and I enjoy reading your posts, as do others, but you are aware I'm sure, that alot of people probably avoid posting their opinions or findings purely based on the fact that they know you'll come along and relegate anything they say to "the scrap heap of non-essential" because of your such high standards and intellect?...and that there's no point in engaging? I like to read and hear from anyone.......regardless of what their level of intellect, education, ability to convey, or knowledge is, and what any evidence or findings may be, (that's what's great about these forums and the internet)there's more than one way to come to a conclussion, and we can very easily determine the significance or credibility of their statements, right? You have higher standards and can quickly sift through, I'll take it all in and sort it out as I please. The way I see things here is that someone asks a question and all there is a need for is a response from you. The end. So I've asked my question twice now and nobody has replied......one person has basically snuffed out ay possibility of hearing from anyone else because you've pretty much smashed an ant with a twenty pound sledgehammer. By the way, I did'nt respond to this thread with any intent on trying to sway anyone to use iridiums, I merely stated that I've used them in motorcycles with good results and was wondering if anybody has used them in a slant engine. So now I've taken what you've said here.... and I have now put it "over there"........one of great value...duly noted, thank you, now I would still like to hear from any others who have used them, pro or con, does'nt matter. Come on!!

Oh please! Personally, I enjoy a good debate when it's based on facts, even reasoned opinion, but when it turns personal I get very tired of it very quickly.

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David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

You want an easy answer? Hook up a data logger that measures throttle position and RPM, and take it out on the road. When you play back those graphs, it's easy to objectively measure just how quickly the engine starts to accelerate after you press the throttle. Data logging is a pretty popular tool in the aftermarket EFI world, but it's possible to use it on carbureted cars too.

You are the one arguing that these plugs make a difference, so the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that they do. You will need something that shows to another person that they do indeed make a difference.

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"Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer
'66 Dart - turbocharged 225
My blog - Mad Scientist Matt's Lair

Speedy, it's regrettable you feel attacked or slighted despite my intent.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I am going to guess that if emissions drop? Power and fuel efficiency goes up!

My friend that runs his own mechanic shop had an old Biscayne with a 2bbl Rochester on a 283. He built it and tuned it. On the highway he got 28-32mpg.

At that rate you think he could pass really strict emission testing for much newer vehicles? Points ignition too!

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'72 Duster 198 stock cam, 3:23's Hookers on jack stands for 8 years in the driveway
'79 Maxivan 360 Offy Qjet Comp RV cam/rusting in the driveway.
93 D350 160HP Cummins Auto Dually Clubcab needs a injector pump
2005 Golden Couch Buick

That isn't the case in every situation and it's not the case across the entire range of possible engine output or exhaust composition, but yeah, if you're looking at things like ignition system changes that cannot affect the fuel/air ratio or the effective cylinder pressure but can only have an effect on the completion of the burn, yes, if HC and CO emissions drop, it means more complete combustion, which means more of the energy contained in the fuel is available to do actual work, which means better mileage and/or better power (depending how you drive) and usually means better running (starting, idling, throttle response, etc.)
That's quite excellent. I'm betting his Biscayne had a manual transmission perhaps with overdrive.
No, probably not.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

Actually given Dan's track record for basically "knowing his chit", i make it a point to read anything he posts, and if he offers advice, I usually end up following it (or planning to). The guy's definately got the knowledge and the experience to back it up, and me being a younger gearhead, I've learned to listen to the guys that've been around for a few years longer than me.

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'74 Duster w/ HEI ignition, beat to snot suspension, A904, 8.25" 3.55 SG rear, still being tuned up and gets 17 MPG

Know how they always build a better idiot? That's me

Thanks for the kind words, Jopapa! I can't imagine your being all that much younger than I; I'm 31. Folks like Doc have a great deal more time and practical experience under their belts than I. Me, I try to help out when I know the answer (or think I know). That said...your comment here makes me wonder if dakight was objecting to my tone of voice, or to Speedy's!

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I am convinced and so are you Matt that a new set of new Autolite 66 will work fine. Its like you said Matt it is basic. After all did we not just use just 2 sets in our race car last year that runs leaded fuel. Thanks Ron Parker.
PS we have bead blasted them and they are ready for this racing season.








Bagels Juiced Im Bamboozled