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 Post subject: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:36 pm 
I have been trying to come up with a stout /6 turbo combo and thought I would try using a 225 block/crank/rods with 2.2 turbo pistons. The block and head would be milled accordingly to get an 8 to 1 compression. SBC stainless valves,(1.75/1.45) and of course a ported head. For turbos I have 2 Ford turbocoupe 2.3 Garretts. The exhaust is .48 and the compressor side is .60. I figure if a 225 can spin over 2 2.2 mopar turbos, this should work very well also. For exhaust I was thinking of a modified rear manifold with Doug's in front. I have a fairly large intercooler core and plan on putting the motor on propane(which I also have all the parts for.) My only question mark is the 2.2 pistons. If my measurements are correct the stock piston(/6)sits about 140-150 in the hole. The compression height of the 2.2 piston is 1.59, so the piston should end up about .310 in the hole before milling. I don't see a problem removing this difference from the block/head, but I want to be sure I'm not overlooking something. Any input would be appreciated.
Tom

sschultz@telusplanet.net


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:41 pm 
Quote:
: I have been trying to come up with a stout /6
: turbo combo and thought I would try using a
: 225 block/crank/rods with 2.2 turbo pistons.
: The block and head would be milled
: accordingly to get an 8 to 1 compression.
: SBC stainless valves,(1.75/1.45) and of
: course a ported head. For turbos I have 2
: Ford turbocoupe 2.3 Garretts. The exhaust is
: .48 and the compressor side is .60. I figure
: if a 225 can spin over 2 2.2 mopar turbos,
: this should work very well also. For exhaust
: I was thinking of a modified rear manifold
: with Doug's in front. I have a fairly large
: intercooler core and plan on putting the
: motor on propane(which I also have all the
: parts for.) My only question mark is the 2.2
: pistons. If my measurements are correct the
: stock piston(/6)sits about 140-150 in the
: hole. The compression height of the 2.2
: piston is 1.59, so the piston should end up
: about .310 in the hole before milling. I
: don't see a problem removing this difference
: from the block/head, but I want to be sure
: I'm not overlooking something. Any input
: would be appreciated.
: Tom


You are overlooking the 7 inch long 198 connecting rods which are used with the 2.2 pistons to get the compression ratio increase most racers are looking for.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:46 pm 
Quote:
: I have been trying to come up with a stout /6
: turbo combo and thought I would try using a
: 225 block/crank/rods with 2.2 turbo pistons.
: The block and head would be milled
: accordingly to get an 8 to 1 compression.
: SBC stainless valves,(1.75/1.45) and of
: course a ported head. For turbos I have 2
: Ford turbocoupe 2.3 Garretts. The exhaust is
: .48 and the compressor side is .60. I figure
: if a 225 can spin over 2 2.2 mopar turbos,
: this should work very well also. For exhaust
: I was thinking of a modified rear manifold
: with Doug's in front. I have a fairly large
: intercooler core and plan on putting the
: motor on propane(which I also have all the
: parts for.) My only question mark is the 2.2
: pistons. If my measurements are correct the
: stock piston(/6)sits about 140-150 in the
: hole. The compression height of the 2.2
: piston is 1.59, so the piston should end up
: about .310 in the hole before milling. I
: don't see a problem removing this difference
: from the block/head, but I want to be sure
: I'm not overlooking something. Any input
: would be appreciated.
: Tom


Tom,

I have considered such a combo myself. I would think that 0.310" off the block would weaken the top deck, although I don't know how thick it is. In the absence of that info, I would deck the block by 0.150-0.200" and mill the head the difference to get your desired comp ratio. Of course, the 198 rods are another option, as the Doc said, but can be hard to find and likely not necessary.

Lou


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:55 pm 
Quote:
: You are overlooking the 7 inch long 198
: connecting rods which are used with the 2.2
: pistons to get the compression ratio
: increase most racers are looking for.
: DD


I realistically only need my 8 to 1 compression ratio back for the turbos, so I thought the block would only have to be decked about .150 or so. Seeing as though the /6 piston is 1.74 comp height, and the 2.2 is 1.59, I would only have to make up this amount. This would save me from having to buy the 198 rods(which I sold like a fool last fall)and be able to use the plentiful 225 rods. Not to mention that the 225 rods should be stronger as they are considerably shorter.
Doug, you also mentioned that your 2.2 turbo set-up spooled very quickly. Do you see any problem spooling two of these with the /6 ? I figured that if the head had good size valves and was ported for good flow, I shouldn't experience too much lag. Sure would make for some kicker boost though.
Tom


sshultz@telusplanet.net


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:14 am 
Quote:
: I realistically only need my 8 to 1 compression
: ratio back for the turbos, so I thought the
: block would only have to be decked about
: .150 or so. Seeing as though the /6 piston
: is 1.74 comp height, and the 2.2 is 1.59, I
: would only have to make up this amount. This
: would save me from having to buy the 198
: rods(which I sold like a fool last fall)and
: be able to use the plentiful 225 rods. Not
: to mention that the 225 rods should be
: stronger as they are considerably shorter.
: Doug, you also mentioned that your 2.2 turbo
: set-up spooled very quickly. Do you see any
: problem spooling two of these with the /6 ?
: I figured that if the head had good size
: valves and was ported for good flow, I
: shouldn't experience too much lag. Sure
: would make for some kicker boost though.
: Tom


You have done your homework Tom, this can be made to work. I would work to keep as much head and block deck thickness and stability as possible, to hold the head gasket seal.

Here is a thought, put a little stroke on the crank to get the compression to 8 with the short piston and 6.7 con rod. Doing this will keep max. deck thickness.

I think a dual turbo SL6 would be cool, dual 2.2 may be a little slow to spool-up but there are ways to help that.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:59 pm 
Quote:
: You have done your homework Tom, this can be
: made to work. I would work to keep as much
: head and block deck thickness and stability
: as possible, to hold the head gasket seal.
:
: Here is a thought, put a little stroke on the
: crank to get the compression to 8 with the
: short piston and 6.7 con rod. Doing this
: will keep max. deck thickness.
:
: I think a dual turbo SL6 would be cool, dual
: 2.2 may be a little slow to spool-up but
: there are ways to help that.
: DD


I was somewhat concerned about the slow spool as well, but it is a 4 spd, and with a good flowing head it shouldn't be too bad. I have a pair of the 2.3 turbocoupe turbos, which use the same size .48 exhaust housing as the 2.2's, but larger compressors. If it still lags I also have a CO2 bottle to help it along. The interesting part will be running it on propane. I have toyed with the idea of either running a customized Offy 2x1bbl intake, or fabbing one from a factory piece. I'd like to get maximum fuel distribution by running 2 mixers(propane carbs). I emailed Cameron Tilley and inquired about some of his parts also, but he was more interested in selling the whole thing as a package. I'm going to keep a detailed account of this build-up in case it actually works, and someone else is interested.LOL
Tom


sschultz@telusplanet.net


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 Post subject: Re: Turbo Build-up
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2002 9:37 am 
I Would rethink useing the 2 turbos from the thunder bird. Each one will push about 350 hp max. I run one of these turbos on a built motor and I don't get boost until about 2000 rpm. I just want to make sure when you do this the engine will spool them. Make sure you do the math and not just compare the 2 by engine size. I have seen this happen alot because they think the turbo size means more hp but it does not!!

andrew wagner
Quote:
:
: I was somewhat concerned about the slow spool
: as well, but it is a 4 spd, and with a good
: flowing head it shouldn't be too bad. I have
: a pair of the 2.3 turbocoupe turbos, which
: use the same size .48 exhaust housing as the
: 2.2's, but larger compressors. If it still
: lags I also have a CO2 bottle to help it
: along. The interesting part will be running
: it on propane. I have toyed with the idea of
: either running a customized Offy 2x1bbl
: intake, or fabbing one from a factory piece.
: I'd like to get maximum fuel distribution by
: running 2 mixers(propane carbs). I emailed
: Cameron Tilley and inquired about some of
: his parts also, but he was more interested
: in selling the whole thing as a package. I'm
: going to keep a detailed account of this
: build-up in case it actually works, and
: someone else is interested.LOL
: Tom


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