I have heard the the early 60s A bodies can accommodate the mid 70s disc brakes and that that is a good change. I am clueless on how to make that happen. What is needed to do it -

Bottom line is - I want the 14 inch rim and the disc brakes - also wanting to know about master cylinder swapability and porportioning valve etc.. Booster too

And lastly the rear end - how can I make everything the same as far as rims go??

Thanks everyone!!


safehavenhi@yahoo.com

Ain't 9" drums scarey, though???

I'm not that knowledgable about pre-66 A-bodies, but I just did this to a '71. Used following parts from a junkyard '74 Dart:

-upper control arms
-lower control arms with welded sway bar tabs
-factory sway bar
-strut rods
-T-bars
-master cylinder (for rebuild or core exchange)
-factory prop valve
-brake lines from master cyl to prop valve and prop valve to front hoses
-knuckles, calipers and rotors
-(5) 14" X 5-bolt, 4-1/2" circle wheels (need a spare, too)
-8-1/4" rear end with 11" drums
-driveshaft (the one from 7-1/4" rear too long)

While you're at it, install new bushings and ball joints. Stock rubber and poly graphite (mo betta) are available. Just be aware going in that a special socket (Layson's has it) is needed for removing/installing the ball joints and that the lower control arm pivot bushings are a real wh*re to remove and install---you need to have a hydraulic press, experience and patience (or some money to pay somebody else who does) to get that part done right. Front end shops are not real happy to see these buggers come in, and their price for the job reflects that displeasure.

Also be aware that if you are lucky enough to find lower control arms with the factory sway bar tabs, the sway bar will require that you swap in a 73-76 K-frame, which has a slot in it that the sway bar passes through. My brake stuff came off a V8 car, so I had to find a different K-frame on a slant 6 car so that the engine mount brackets (which are on the K-frame)would be right.

The K-frame is attached to the frame with only 4 bolts...but the entire front end, steering box and engine are bolted to the K-frame, so removing one involves some work and, hopefully, a buddy to help. If you see the lowers with sway bar tabs, get them and the sway bar anyway even if you don't want to hassle with the K-frame now---you can always save that for later.

Usefull tools for this project:

-tie rod puller: Eastwood sells a beauty (49026)...once you use this you'll never touch a pickle fork again. Works great for poppin' the ball joints loose w/o wrecking the boots and generally scarring up everything else in the vicinity.

-T-bar puller: homemade. T-bars gotta come out before lower control arms will. Mine is a heavy "L" bracket (3/8" thick) and 2 heavy u-bolts. Clamps to T-bar (like the factory tool in your shop manual) and gives you a striking surface for knocking the T-bar out after tension bolts are unloaded and C-clip removed.

-digital caliper: to check junkyard rotors for adequate thickness.

-brake drum caliper: to check junkyard drums for safe inside diameter.

If rotors or drums aren't withing spec, the machine shop will refuse to turn them because they are unsafe to use.

I'd use NEW:
-brake hoses
-master cylinder
-rear wheel cylinders
-pads and shoes
-wheel bearings and seals
-bushings and ball joints
-turn the rotors and drums.

Hopefully, if there are special incompatibilty issues on the very early 60s cars, somebody else who is more familiar with them than I am will chime in here and fill you in.

Hope this helps.

---Red

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">See the article at <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop ... sk.html</A>.

Chuck</FONT>


webmaster@omnipages.com

I've got a '66 with the large brake conversion using a mixture of '73-'76 A-body parts and the rotors and caliper brackets off a '79 Newport. This gives me what may be more braking ability than an A-body needs, except I am a firm believer that you can't have too much braking. Here are a couple notes about what's different and other general comments about Mopar suspension.

To start with, some of the parts from the donor car listed aren't really necessary - although they can generally be used if you need replacements for what you've got. I'll go through the list with a couple notes:

You don't need the lower control arms from the donor car, as the ball joints will bolt up to the early A-body lower control arms with no trouble. They aren't the same ball joints, but they do bolt up. And if you're like me and want a beefy Addco sway bar instead of the smaller stock unit, you don't need the tabs anyway.
:
: -factory sway bar

This isn't very easy to put on a pre-'67. Might as well skip it.
:
: -strut rods

These things don't wear out. No need to swap unless yours are badly rusted.
:
: -T-bars

Well, if the donor car has a V8, they may make a worthwhile upgrade. I wouldn't bother replacing a set of slant six bars with another set of used slant six bars - unless yours show pitting or other rust damage.

The rest of the parts listed are all necessary - although in some cases you can make substitutions.
:
: While you're at it, install new bushings and
: ball joints. Stock rubber and poly graphite
: (mo betta) are available. Just be aware
: going in that a special socket (Layson's has
: it) is needed for removing/installing the
: ball joints and that the lower control arm
: pivot bushings are a real wh*re to remove
: and install---you need to have a hydraulic
: press, experience and patience (or some
: money to pay somebody else who does) to get
: that part done right. Front end shops are
: not real happy to see these buggers come in,
: and their price for the job reflects that
: displeasure.

I paid a machine shop $50 to replace all the pressed in bushings and take care of the upper ball joints. Cheaper than buying the socket from some sources I looked at.
:
: Also be aware that if you are lucky enough to
: find lower control arms with the factory
: sway bar tabs, the sway bar will require
: that you swap in a 73-76 K-frame, which has
: a slot in it that the sway bar passes
: through.

Unfortunately, you can't put a '67 or later K-member in a '66 or earlier A-body. They changed the width with the '67 model redesign so as to make it easier to put in a big block V8.
:
: Usefull tools for this project: -tie rod
: puller: Eastwood sells a beauty
: (49026)...once you use this you'll never
: touch a pickle fork again. Works great for
: poppin' the ball joints loose w/o wrecking
: the boots and generally scarring up
: everything else in the vicinity.

Since all the ball joints on my car were replaced with new ones, I just used a pickle fork. But don't make the mistake I did and get one which was made by welding the head onto a shaft, as the weld is likely to break if you apply enough force to separate the ball joint (in my case, by putting a length of pipe over the handle and jumping up and down on it). True one piece pickle forks are better than the kind that is made from two pieces. And the boots were wrecked before I started.
:
: -T-bar puller: homemade. T-bars gotta come out
: before lower control arms will. Mine is a
: heavy "L" bracket (3/8"
: thick) and 2 heavy u-bolts. Clamps to T-bar
: (like the factory tool in your shop manual)
: and gives you a striking surface for
: knocking the T-bar out after tension bolts
: are unloaded and C-clip removed.

I used a cable clamp from the local hardware store. Pretty cheap and just the right size to fit on a torsion bar.

If you're good with a heavy ball-pein or hand-sledge, you can use them instead of the pickle fork or press. You just hit the outside of the female(internal) taper piece, and it 'momentarily' distorts the taper and separates the two mating pieces. It sounds brutal, but it's really not. Oh, yeah, take the castelated nut and cotter pin off first, or you'll be beating on that thing forever.
I've been thinking about having Quickor make me up a custom frt sway bar for such an application, that is, early crossmember+later BBP disks& lower control arms.


fglmopar@aol.com

Matt...

Agreed, the T-bars and strut rods need not be replaced...my old ones were rusty and ratty looking, and the ones on the donor car were nice, so I picked 'em up since I was going to have the whole thing apart anyhow.

I still say the tie rod puller has it all over any pickle fork--regardless of whether or not you care about the boots or ball joints. It just makes that part of disassembly quicker and easier. I've used both methods, and there's just no comparison: a few turns of the wrench and "POW" they're loose...no more prying and banging and cussing. A similar tool also comes in a front end service tool kit sold @ Kragen.

Consider yourself lucky on that $50 charge for remove / install ball joints and bushings...all the shops around here quoted me higher...you made a score on that one!

As far as your cable clamp / T-bar remover goes...I started out using something similar, until I ran into some T-bars that flat out REFUSED to be budged by such a tool. I now use a small hand sledge with this overkill monster I made and have yet to meet a T-bar that fails to respond after a couple of hits.

Thanks for jumping in, everybody...was good to learn some stuff I didn't know about early A-bodies.

---Red

Ok guys - I am a bit unclear - can someone summarize for me

Whats a T bar?

Also the only parts I am aware of are
1. the upper a-arm
2. the lower a-arm
3. the steering rods that come down from the pitman arm
4. and the spindle thing that attaches to the 2 a- arms
5. Oh yeah and the torsion bars and those 2 diagonal bars the point forward ( stablizers??)with rubber bushings on the front.

So What exactly to I take from the 74 dart?? And can I steel the rear end too- any conflicts there?

Thanks man! I'm a little slow.


safehavenhi@yahoo.com

Shorthand for a torsion bar.
:
: Also the only parts I am aware of are
: 1. the upper a-arm
: 2. the lower a-arm
: 3. the steering rods that come down from the
: pitman arm

Also known as a tie rod.
:
: 4. and the spindle thing that attaches to the 2
: a- arms

That's the spindle - and on a disc car, it's actually three different components bolted together. You've got the spindle itself, the lower ball joint, and a bracket to attach the calipers to it.
:
: 5. Oh yeah and the torsion bars and those 2
: diagonal bars the point forward (
: stablizers??)with rubber bushings on the
: front.

The diagonal bars are called strut rods. They keep the lower control arms from moving back and forth under braking. Or you can think of it as part of a 2-piece A-arm.
:
: So What exactly to I take from the 74 dart??

Spindles and upper control arms at the least. You can also get the rotors (if they're in good shape) and the brackets that attach the calipers to the spindles if you want stock A-body brakes instead of elaborate mixing and matching to get really huge brakes. Splash shields are optional; some people claim brakes work better without them. You may or may not want the wheels on the donor car.

You will want to buy the ball joints, bearings, and brake hoses new. This is also a good time to add polyurethane bushings if you want them.
:
: And can I steel the rear end too- any
: conflicts there?

Go ahead and grab it. It'll bolt right in and give you a matching bolt pattern all the way around.

BUT...if the rear end is NOT the same type / ring gear size (you'll mostly find 7-1/4" and 8-1/4" in your target donor cars) as the one in your car, you'll also need to have your driveshaft shortened and the shaft re-balanced...your old shaft will NOT be the right length, because the distance between the axle shaft and pinion yoke / u-joint center will not be the same as on your present set up.

I think there were several different Dart / Valiant wheel bases from the early 60s to the mid 70s: 106"(thru '66), 108" ('67-'73) and 111" ('74-'75). I'm a little foggy on the Dusters / Scamps in terms of wheel base...never having owned either. The bottom line is, if you swap in a different rear, you'll have to measure (u-joint center to u-joint center) once you get it bolted in to determine what driveshaft length you'll need.

If your old rear is the type with the big, castlated nuts on the ends of the axles, that's one more reason (besides drum size and bolt pattern)to swap to a newer one...the "axle nut" type rear is more of a pain to work on.

---Red

Don't let go of the old emergency brake cables from the old rear axle, because the new rear's cables may not fit the new (body)application. No biggie, just remove them from the old rear axle and install them in the new axle's backing plates.
I think there is a recent thread on some tips for replacing these frt end pieces, especially removing the t-bars without damaging them.

fglmopar@aol.com

P.S. You might want to think about committing to 14" wheels. I went to get some new boots for my '79 300, and could only find two manufacturers for my preferred size(245x60R15). It seems as though the trend to larger dia wheels is affecting the availability of 'older' sizes. Just food for thought.

fglmopar@aol.com

Boomer.....something that hasn't been covered as far as upgrading that rear end......and someone more knowledgable on the narrow A-bodies can check me on this.

The early A's had a ball & trunion type drive shaft, and those d-shafts were changed over to u-joints in about '66 (I think). If you get a rear out of the donor car, I suggest you also get the d-shaft, and you'll probably have to have a custom shaft fabbed up with a ball/trunnion on the trans end and a u-joint on the diff end.

Roger

GTS225@aol.com