Hello wizards,

Today I popped in my new ARP head stud kit and put on my new $800 head milled .120 with Felpro gasket. Oh yes, ported to the max in pockets, bell flared to Aussie gasket, big valves, new guides, and 5 angle grind.

Now, reading the ARP lit in the stud box they say torque to 70 to 85 percent of FSM if using ARP moly lube. My machine shop gave me a packet of the ARP moly lube with the comment they don't know why ARP doesn't include it in bolt sets any more, and of course I used it on the washers. I torqued to my FSM of 65 ft/lbs saying to myself pis.. on 45 to 50 or so ft/lbs per ARP.

Whaddaya wizards think? Did I mess up? What torque would you use on a kicka.. head wtih ARP studs and ARP moly lube?

Thanks
rock
64d100

Considering you have fine thread nuts on the tops of those studs and a much better thread lube than oil I'd have to say the head and gasket probably aren't going anywhere due to the much higher clamping force.

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Joshua

There is really much more to this than what should the head be torqued to. The very reason for plate honing a cylinder is because of the defection that is caused by the head bolts causing stress the block which inturn deforms the cylinder.

The ARP bolts do have more pull & clamping force because of there design, 65lb of torque will pull more on them to begin with simply because of the better lube & the fine thread making it easier to turn against the forces.


If the bottom end is old & stock, I beleive I would back all the bolts off and retorque them to the ARP recamendations. If the block is fresh and has been plate honed I would ask the machine shop if they used bolts or studs & what torque they used when doing the job. Then match what they did on torque if its within reason.


It may not seem possible to move the cylinder walls around by torquing a head bolt. But I have seen the proof, by honing a cylinder without a plate, then going back & doing with a plate. You can really see a pattern that is inline with the head bolt going up & down the cylinder from where the bolts would flex the block. The stronger the block the less effect from this will be noticed. The more the cylinder is bored, the more important it becomes. BUt if this happens you end up with about a 3/8th (depending on bolt size) wide spot going up & down the cylinder at each head bolt (about the lenth of the head bolts is how far down it will effect it), that the ring will not be touching the cylinder wall(low spots). Or the other way around with each of these places being a high spot (which is worse), depending on which way the events that changed where.


As far as holding the head gasket itself there is really not much diff in adding a little extra torque. If anything adding extra may hurt things by not allow a little give in the system.


It is the little things & attention to detail that really make the diff between engines and how much power they make & there durablity. The choice is yours, but when I spend my hard earned money I know what kinda results I wish to have.


Jess

Thanks, Joshie and Lucky!

As Lucky says, there is more to it than torque, and I sure didn't know it. VEEERRRY useful info guys... Using ARP studs and the ARP moly grease did things far beyond my realm of experience, who woulda thought that really good fasteners and lube would have that much efffect.

Luckyl, it is a fresh block and was plate honed, and I understood why my guys use the plate, but didn't translate that understanding to my studs and head...I need to hit my head on the block a few times while saying "Dennis you dummy!" But no harm yet, as I wanted to wait for y'alls answer before firing er up.

THanks again,
rock
'64d100

Ahh, a torque plate was used! I had no idea. Lucky's got it right. My machinist friend would always return my block with a note next to the torque plate hone with something like 100 ft/lbs oil. With head studs I would have ideally supplied them to the machine shop.

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Joshua

Attention to details makes all the difference...
I set-up the hone plate myself, with the fasteners I will be using in the engine build and torque it down with my torque wrench.
I stamp or engrave the torque reading onto the block so I can alway reference it, just in case I have to pull the head or rebuild the engine years later.
DD

If the studs are the same as the ones I use on the Minis be sure to follow the directions supplied. Been a while since I did a set, but seem to remember they suggest torque then undo and retorque. If I'm remembering right this gets the right bolt tension. Also, double check them after you've run them a bit.

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From Mopars to classic Minis and back to Mopars in 19 years flat!

Will work for roast chicken crisps!!

Doug,

Do you rent out that torque plate?

Joshua

Yes, but shipping is expensive... 2 inch thick steel plate and 14 steel tube spacers, if you are using studs.
DD

DOC, did you have that plate made up, or even make it yourself? Or is there someone that even sales a plate for a /6. LOL, I have been wandering if my machine shop was going to have a plate for these engines. I will soon have enough equipment to make a plate but I bet a slab of meat that thick is going to cost plenty.


Jess

how can I make myself a honing plate? nobody here has one! can I have laser, or water cutted a 2 inches piece of steel and that'd do it? how bout the outter shape? it's really important to shape the plate after the head or can I just cut a rectangle and cut the bores?
I have used before my ARP studs... what kind of lube should I put on them for reusing? I had them only 500 miles on an engine that I blew up due to cam failure. didn't overheat, just crapped out on me.
Thanks

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Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

anyone?

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Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

Cecil Yother made my plate.
http://www.yother.com/perf.htm
BHJ also makes them.
BHJ Products.com
DD

doc, how much did you pay for that beauty? also, I believe that shipping that would be VERY expensive, huh?

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Juan Ignacio Caino

Please use e-mail button istead of PM'ing. I do log in sometimes but I'll be answering quicker thru e-mail.

I paid $300 for my 2 inch steel plate, plus another 30.00 for the stud spacers.

My first torque plate I made myself, by sawing the top deck off a used engine block.
DD