Ok, so we got the new engine all together, I timed it to #1 TDC compression stroke. Its really hard to start cold, and after sitting more than a few minutes when warm, is also really hard to start.

So I decided to see what I could do.

Just to get it running I had to move the dizzy all the way counter clockwise of its rotation (including the secondary bolt under the dizzy all the way advanced), otherwise, the spark is too delayed and the car sounds like it wants to start but can't. So, I pulled it, moved the adjusting bar all the way retarded, and then installed the dizzy 1 tooth in advance. It wont even fart at that, so I move it around in there, no luck, so I put it at full advance, and all it does it try to backfire.

So I moved it 1 tooth retarded from its original position (2 teeth back from current) moved the timing bar to full retard, got nothing, then full advance, still nothing.

So the only spot I can see that it will run, is in the original position, at full advance, so I cant adjust it any further up, because it isnt where its supposed to be. If I remember correctly, static timing should be around 10-12 degrees BTDC, and its showing alot less than that, more around maybe 1-2 BTDC. I just cant adjust it any farther.

The main reason I am having an issue, is that it will run pretty well in park/neutral, but as soon as a load is applied (i.e. in gear) it cuts out real bad and basically dies within a few seconds. There was once I was able to get the car to move on its own, but I couldnt do anything more thna flutter the pedal a little just to keep it running.

It really needs to be taken out and driven around, tuned, driven and then adjusted a few more times, but I cant even get it out of the driveway yet. Occasionally, it will idle in gear for a little while, but as soon as you even look at the gas pedal, it sputters and dies, then is usually really hard to get restarted.

I am thinking that the hard-start / dies under load is caused by the same issue. Hell it could even mostly be because of the carb. I adjusted idle screws to a basic 2.5 turns out for a ballpark setting, because adjusting them at all unless they are almost all the way in has no effect.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated!!!!!

~The Other Rob~

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

How is the timing chain on this motor?

Is there any accelertor pump squirt?


You could probably use more initial advance.


To set initial timing from scratch I hand rotate the engine till the timing mark on the damper is about 8 advanced TDC #1. With the key on I rotate the dist till I get a spark (coil wire disconnected from dist cap and close to a ground). Rotate the dist back and forth till you get a sense of where it should be. You should get a strong spark each time.

Be careful ....make sure the coil wire is off cuz the darn thing can start when the timing is right.........

_________________
Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

I realize your comments are geared towards spark at the appropriate timing.

Similar too the other feedback I too am curious of the accelerator pump.

But it sound more like it could be a big vacuum leak? gl/6.

The accelerator pump works fine, I get a nice big squirt out ob both jets when I pump the gas pedal.


As for the initial timing, I cant set it any farther in advance due to the distributor only going so far with the adjustment bar, and moving the rotor 1 more tooth in advance, and then adjusting the bar more retarted doesnt warrant a start.

How much change in initial timing occurs between teeth on the dizzy gear?

The timing gear and chain are brand new btw. As far as vacuum leaks, it could be that there is one, but I have sprayed carb cleaner around the base of the carb, and on the manifolds and I cant get it to surge. It does run a little rough at idle, but could that be because of the increased comp ratio?

We used a Fel-pro gasket, I dont remember the thickness, but I shaved the head .100" to increase the comp ratio. Factory spec on the engine was 8.4:1, and the engine has 134k miles on it.

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

How did you adjust the valves? They could be too tight.

It's about 15 degrees per tooth. If your off a tooth on the chain you can still get ot to run but it may not have any power if it is retarded a tooth.

How much did you advance the cam?
Did you degree the cam?
What cam are you running?
Is the cam new?

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

It's a stock cam in the engine it came with (out of a '74 Dart), so no the cam isn't new. Haven't degreed the cam, but I don't know about the advance - I'm at work today, so 66Valiant200 is working on the engine for me (it's the engine we swapped into my Dart).
The valves were adjusted after the engine was at NOT, to factory specs with feeler gauges.

_________________
<i>D'Artagnan</i>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/stephaniexchaos/dart/th_IMG_0326_zpsumhhfxi0.jpg">

OK,

1) the distributor was off a tooth, we got it reset to about 8BTDC initial, the vacc. adv. canister was tanked and causing a vacc. leak for the carb (replaced with another 8.5R can... seems to work OK and give good advance in the normal rpms range)

2) Rewired the EI, the 'keyed power on wire' was sent through the old ballast resistor, not swapped out to the new EI set up (so setting up 2 BR's in series isn't too good).

3) THe throttle linkage is a bit on the stiff side, I gave Rob a better one to try to get the cable angle better, and also provided a correct super six return spring bracket and proper springs....

4) The Lokar Kick down needs to be reworked and adjusted, it was binding up the throttle and not allowing the full travel of the throttle arm before giving the lever full swing...

5) The Holley 2280 is not in good shape, she's due for a full overhaul, needs a functional choke (we got the mix and idle corrected...so when it runs, it runs nice and strong with good peak vaccuum)... but she doesn't like to start so well... so: choke thermotat/ manual choke cable, carb rebuild kit, and linkage adjustments will help...

6) Battery was sagged down a bit, that poor interstate battery needs to sit on the charger overnight so she rolls over a bit faster (or a good run up to Vancouver and back with no stops would get the battery back in shape...

7) New thermostat is in the works...


FYI the engine has a 1975 distributor, and a 1975+ head on it (which must've been a replacment in the '74 Dart at some point in time...)



Game ON!




-D.Idiot

That's a pretty big catch!
Kinda hard to diagnose all that over the posts.

Good work

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG

Well I managed to get to DI's house with the car not running so well, and all that he said above was stuff he either fixed or diagnosed for a future fix at his house. We got the car running pretty well, shut it off, and then it wouldnt start again.

So the only driveability problems now are the kickdown linkage, and the hard starting due to carb issues. I have a spare 2280 lying around that Ive already rebuilt and see if that fixes it, or at least makes it better.

It gets a bit old having to get out and utilize my tactical starting device (a.k.a. screwdriver) to get the car started while actuating the choke and throttle with my left hand. Im also pretty sure that Steph doesnt want to have to do that either, so tomorrow I am going to swap the carbs, and some linkage to get it doing its job.

Thanks DI again soooo much!!!!!

~The Other Rob~

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

And actually, I notced when the car was running warm, that the thermostat opened and it fluctuates a little above and below the 3/4 mark, but no higher, so a 180 degree thermostat is going in tomorrow to get that down a bit, hopefully to the middle of the gauge. When moving, the car runs SWEET, but that damn starting issue is just such a pain.

~The Other Rob again~

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

I know you probably know, but just a word of caution. When using that "tactical starting device" please be absolutely sure, every time you use it, that the car is out of gear and the e-brake set firmly.

_________________
David Kight
'62 Valiant Signet, White
'98 Dodge Dakota
'06 Jeep Liberty

Growing older is unavoidable but growing up is strictly optional.

Yea, so we found out why we were having issues with the carb, which turned out to not be issues with the carb at all.

Somewhere along the line of us splicing in new electrical wires, the power to the ignition systemwas cut when the key was in the start position, hence we thought it wouldnt start without the choke being pulled because when we were under the hood with the key "on" the ignition had power, but the car was so flooded from trying to get it to start with the key, that you had to choke it to get it to fire.

So I just went down to the auto parts store, and bought a pushbutton and I ran wires to the solenoid and the positive battery cable on the starter, turn the key on in the car, press the button and it starts right up.

So the carb as far as I can tell is fine, and I think the reason why the ignition switch no longer lights the ignition off is because DI and I unhooked the blue wire that would ordinarily run to the (+) side of the coil, and that may be why it wont start with the key anymore.

I dont know, but at least for now, the button will get the car to start, and thats all we really need until we have more time to mess with it.

_________________
1984 D100 Shorty Custom
Certified Auto Appraiser - RevItUp Classic Appraisals
President - Cherry City Bombers CC
Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

This could be filed under electrical, checked the wiring on the EI mod, everything looked OK (redid a few connections that looked old/frayed)...

Teched it down to a problem at the starter relay (it looked like it came from the land of the dead, so a new one went on)... after some head scratching and intermittent starts/no starts, finally figured out the neutral safety switch either wasn't working or wasn't hooked up...
Sadly while teching things under the dash, we found that several wires had been spliced in the past, some weren't connected anymore, and it looks like the big black Ammeter wire had gotten pretty hot at some point in time (and needs to be replaced soon too...)

Now it fires and runs great (boy my head hurts), next up kickdown actuation, bigger exhaust, and a distributor recurve... I think... after
I get some more Tylenol...

-D.Idiot

DusterIdiot,

Man, your really getting the work out!
I feel for you!

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG